Spells, a questions for joo?

[Lydyn]

Sorry, a Final Fantasy X-2 reference. :p

Anywho, I didn't want GMs overlooking this because I was the last to post on my Spells? topic and it's the last one to be posted on, so ... the question is, would I be allowed to use other spells beside those listed in the NwN spell selection? It would mostly be used for role-play most likely, unless it's a popular demand (doubt it would become one here) and you decide to script it.

I know, because if I played a wizard character (if you read my CDT, you'll know what I'm getting at here) s/he would research and develop more spells then what just NwN allows. Spells like Teleport for example. Of course, it'd only be used in a GM event ... but RP-wise, I can very well see a wizard (or sorceress!) developing this spell.

... and yeah. Just explaining my viewpoint and expressing my hopes that it's accepted here. There are tons of cool arcane (and divine) spells that can be role-played.

-Lydyn

[Acacea]

That depends on the spell. On quests it is usually up to GM discretion, and they are not used as spells but rather more difficult rituals requiring dice rolls, generally.

Wizards receive a tome of teleportation at level 14 that allows them to mark a spot to teleport back to whenever. Also teleportation has frequently been handled on GM quests, though it is extremely difficult en masse, etc.

[Acacea]

In addition, it is generally not a good idea to, for instance, pull spells from the D&D lists, because Layonara's magic level is lower and many spells that are quantified and listed at low levels do not even exist here, or would be considered much higher power. Which is why it's usually "GM discretion" for their quests.

But yes, many are pretty open ended on what you may creatively attempt, providing the roleplay is good and rolls decent.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

If it's a cantrip, you can probably pull it off without trouble.

Sorcerer/Wizard Spells :: d20srd.org
Druid Spells :: d20srd.org
Cleric Spells :: d20srd.org
Bard Spells :: d20srd.org

None of these spells are very high power at all... In fact, many would be entirely useless to have a mechanical version of in NWN - Mending, for example. But yet they're AWESOME for RP! (Especially Prestidigitation. My personal favorite spell of all, even including all levels.)

But on a quest... Always run it past a DM first. Always.

[Pseudonym]

@Lydyn - Pretty much what Acacea said - our job here (within common-sense limitations) is to encourage creativity and good RP which I believe includes an element of adaptability. We are here to enhance your playing experience, not to stifle.

Some spells are off limits for various reasons; Gate, Comprehend Languages, Telepathy, Wish, etc. Some (and I qualify this with a big 'I think') due to Bioware limitations and some due to not fitting into the campaign setting.

Every GM will be different of course as to what they are comfortable allowing on their quests but every GM* will also be open to any reasonable request you make.



[size=-2]*Maybe not Tanman - he's the Devil[/size]

[LynnJuniper]

Just ask. Dms like when you think outside the box, and to be honest being a wizard would be boring if you couldn't. I won't go too far into how Wizards and Sorcerers are basically the same thing (Same spell set) with different ways of preparing spells in NWN, but...

Just , if you do want to pull spells from D&D , or you want to say 'hey can I ______' on a DM quest just "Hey, can I do ______" If they ask you to elaborate be sure to explain directly and then its up to them what they ask for. Some GMs know D&D here, some don't...but if it makes sense for the character and the situation (I can only speak for myself, so an example: Rhynn's an epic focused/specialized illusionist, so on quests I can usually make figments appear and/or change my appearance and/or the appearance of others if I give GMs a heads up and wait for them to confirm that its okay).

Outside of quests..well..Use Common Sense. Once again as I can only speak for myself....I sometimes have Rhynn RP playing with certain aspects of her appearance (Changing hair and eye color for other's amusement) or making little figments appear, again for her amusement and others..

Just....once again with this

Refrain from metagaming/doing anything that would result in unwanted PVP. IF you want to cast for example, a spell of enchantment or some other spell that would effect (negatively, positively, or just effect) another person, be sure to check in with them first to make sure its okay in the RP with them AND make sure to give them a chance to roll against It (The roll against a DC of a spell is usually Spell level + INT/CHA modifier + (Insert any Focus Feats you took here) = _____, against either will, reflex , or fortitude or any number of appropriate counters.)

I guess that went a bit off topic, but that's my understanding on the issue

[Dorganath]

@Lydyn - Pretty much what Acacea said - our job here (within common-sense limitations) is to encourage creativity and good RP which I believe includes an element of adaptability. We are here to enhance your playing experience, not to stifle.

Some spells are off limits for various reasons; Gate, Comprehend Languages, Telepathy, Wish, etc. Some (and I qualify this with a big 'I think') due to Bioware limitations and some due to not fitting into the campaign setting.

Repeating this because it's good information and to add some clarifications:

Gate: It's a spell you can take, it's in the list and yep, it mechanically pulls nasties from the Pits/Planes.  However, it can never, ever be used for planar travel.  This has been argued in the past and it's simply not possible in Layonara.  Traveling to other planes requires a special portal, and currently all the known portals to the Pits/Planes are closed

Tongues, Telepathy, Comprehend Languages and similar spells that grant extraordinary and highly-exploitable abilities to characters pretty much do not exist here.  Mechanically, they don't really fly well.  In an RP sense, they're "cheap" ways around our systems.  Telepathy, for example, has been used and abused in the past by people who just decided they were telepaths. Another good example of this are things like scrying, which should only be attempted and successful under the aid of a GM...pretty much like it would be in PnP.

Wish: Heh...this spell was rarely a good idea in PnP gaming.  IF, and it's a big "IF", a GM allowed this to be attempted, there would be a heavy, heavy cost as well as it would likely be "ritual" magic, meaning it's not just a "cast -> I win" kind of thing.  Rather, it would involve some serious preparations an likely the participation of multiple casters with a high chance for failure and catastrophe.

As has been said, applying common sense to these things goes a long way.

In non-quest situations, RPing a spell effect that is "off the list" so to speak is generally OK provided it does not have any real effects.  Things like minor illusions and glamors are harmless and tend to be OK. Personally, I accompany such things with Spellcraft checks to see how well I do, or if I fail completely.  So yes, this means that in terms of RPing a lot of the spells that are in the D&D list but not in the NWN/Layo list, the choices are very limited.

In quest or GM-supervised situations, the options are greater, but again, many of these things will be ritual-based or more difficult than simply "casting".  The most important thing here is this:  Before you attempt such a thing on a quest or similar situation, always always always get ab OK from the GM first. He/She will set up the conditions you need to accomplish the spell or state that it's not possible. If a GM says it's not possible, please do not argue.  It's a good way to disrupt a quest for the GM and the other players.  If you have an issue with the way things were handled, take it up at the end of the quest.

One good example I can think of was the (relatively) simple "Speak with Dead" spell.  A handy thing in PnP, and just a simple casting.  Here, it's a ritual and requires GM guidance.  So it's possible when supervised, and otherwise, it's off the table.

Hope this and the other responses help.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

To pop up what may only be a personal opinion...

While a Wizard will have a better chance at success with ritual preparations for modified or original spells of high power/level, a Sorcerer will have a better chance at simpler modifications of lower power/level spells.

The reason? While a Wizard learns spells through methodic study and careful memorization (and yet has no innate power of his/her own), a Sorcerer's spells are simply a direct manifestation of the character's innate magical strength. On Layonara, I suppose you could substitute "innate magical power" with "innate control of the Weave," but you get the idea.

[Falonthas]

so does that mean even though mechanically nwn doesnt have the natural spell casting,in a quest if the gm says ok a druid could heal if stuck in shift for a time?

[Lydyn]

Alright, alright, I got it ... heh, no more repeating the same thing again, please. I have common sense. :p If I'm unsure if I can use a spell, (I always ask in a GM event anyways) I'll simply ask here if it's alright.

-Lydyn

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

so does that mean even though mechanically nwn doesnt have the natural spell casting,in a quest if the gm says ok a druid could heal if stuck in shift for a time?

It depends on the GM, but probably not. It depends heavily on what they're shifted into. If it's a kobold, perhaps; at least then they can make the gestures and sounds. If it's a Minotaur, MAYBE. If it's a wolf, I would have to say almost assuredly not.

Then again, they might be able to sacrifice a spell of higher level to simply pray to nature to heal the other person with a lower level spell. *Shrug.* DM discretion.

[Falonthas]

kinda what i was thinking too