Weapon Master Feats

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Hey Folks. Was looking over the [lore]Weapon Master[/lore] Feats [lore]Superior Weapon Focus[/lore] and [lore]Epic Superior Weapon Focus[/lore]and Noticed that they both are feats that you get every 5/3 levels. Does that mean, at levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, etc. you get a +1 to AB and at levels 13, 16, 19, 22, 25, 28, etc you get ANOTHER +1 to AB That if you could take 40 WM levels, you'd get 8+10... +18 to AB?! Lets say you had to take 6 [lore]fighter[/lore] levels, which I think it the only way to meet the reqs that fast, you'd have 34 WM levels? So... 6+8... so +14 AB! Being a Fgt/WM, you'd have a BAB of 30 (44), you'd have at least 25 Str without magic, and about 37 with, so thats a another +13 (57, 51 without magic) plus a Mithril weapon, another +3 (60), and thats not even taking into a count an Epic Bard Being around, [lore]Greater Magic Weapon[/lore], or even the other Weapon Focus Feats. You need [lore]Weapon Focus[/lore] to be a WM, so there's another +1 (61), and then you got [lore]Epic Weapon Focus[/lore] which is +2 (62 if it doesnt stack with WF, 63 if it does)...
 
 That means you could have, if I did this right and it works the way I think it does an Attack Bonus set of 63/58/53/48... Thats insane...
 
 Is this right? Do those two feats really work together like that? I didn't even put the possibility of the [lore]Great Strength[/lore] Feats that would raise your Str and therefore your AB even higher....

[s0ulz]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but no, it doesn't work like that.

Superior weapon focus at WM level 5 adds a one time bonus of +1 to the AB permanently. It does stack with Epic Superior Weapon Focus, which after level 13 gives +1 to the AB again every three WM epic levels (13,16,...).

So in a sense you were right, except the regular version is a one time bonus, not every 5 levels.

Ninja disclaimer edit: unless it's altered in Layonara.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

See Thats the thing, LORE says it DOES add on every five levels...
 
 "A Weaponmaster continues to receive this feat for every five levels taken in the class (5th, 10th, 15th, etc.). The effects stack, so for instance, a character with twenty levels of weaponmaster will have a +4 bonus to attack with their weapon of choice. "

[s0ulz]

Well until we get a verification from the team or someone who wants to test it, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Basically, with wpnmastr, you get +1 AB at every five levels of the class until you take the Epic Superior Weapon Focus feat, after which you gain +1 AB every three levels instead of every five levels. You don't get both, but the AB bonuses do stack. And yes, it works in Layo.

[s0ulz]

Basically, with wpnmastr, you get +1 AB at every five levels of the class until you take the Epic Superior Weapon Focus feat, after which you gain +1 AB every three levels instead of every five levels. You don't get both, but the AB bonuses do stack. And yes, it works in Layo.

Is it altered? Because it's definitely not like that in vanilla NWN.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Yeah, but as I said, LORE explicitly states that it does work every 5 Levels, and since you have to take Superior Weapon Focus upon taking a 13th level of WM, it doesn't say it stops working when you get that feat.
 
 Would still want to hear from Dorg or Orth who know what the code looks like, but if it doesn't work the way Lore explicitly says it does, could someone fix that?  It doesn't matter to me, but I do know Barion has enough WM levels to know if it works like LORE says it does, or if it doesn't, and if it's intended to work the way LORE says it does, and it's NOT working that way, I would think he should be able to benefit from it.
 
 So basically, if it's not supposed to and doesn't work the way LORE says it does, could someone fix it so it states the truth about the mechanics of the feat, and if it is supposed to work the way LORe says it does and it's not doing so IG, could someone fix that?

[akata]

Hiya, just as a little side note. No Class or PrC have a BAB of +40 after you turn epic you fall under the Epic progression. which are +1 to Ab every other lvl ( 21, 23, 25, ect ect) Meaning even a lvl 40 WM would have a BAB of 30

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Ok, I fixed that, but the BAB bonus part wasn't really the point.  The possibility of getting +14 to AB just from class feats is what I'm asking about.  But even so, a AB set of 63/58/53/48 is still impressive.

[miltonyorkcastle]

As far as I know, you don't get the benefit of both, but hey, I could be wrong, so I'll join you guys in waiting for an answer from another.

I'm pretty sure we didn't alter the way it works from basic NWN, so if in basic you get both, well then I'm wrong. The way I understood those feats to work in basic NWN, though was that it was an "either/or" sort of thing.

[s0ulz]

As long as we're nitpicking, you can potentially have 30 PrC levels due to the pre-epic 10 level rule.

I'm fairly certain it works like regular weapon focus, where you get a one-time bonus. Only the epic version is different, where it gives an additive bonus every three rounds. So you get +1 pre-epic and another stackable +1 at levels 13+(3).

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Well if it's not supposed to work that way and it's shown not to, that's great, but then LORE should be fixed to state the facts. I don't know when that was written or how WM feats worked at the time, but however they work now is what should be stated there.  So either way, just looking for the Facts to be right.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

As long as we're nitpicking, you can potentially have 30 PrC levels due to the pre-epic 10 level rule.
 
 I'm fairly certain it works like regular weapon focus, where you get a one-time bonus. Only the epic version is different, where it gives an additive bonus every three rounds. So you get +1 pre-epic and another stackable +1 at levels 13+(3).

 
 Read the Descriptions for the Feats... It says exactly how they work, which is why I asked these questions.
 
 
 
 
[lore]Superior Weapon Focus[/lore] States: [INDENT]A Weaponmaster continues to receive this feat for every five levels taken in the class (5th, 10th, 15th, etc.). The effects stack, so for instance, a character with twenty levels of weaponmaster will have a +4 bonus to attack with their weapon of choice. [/INDENT][lore]Epic Superior Weapon Focus[/lore] States: [INDENT]Specifics: The character gains a +1 bonus to all Attack Rolls made with his weapon of choice at 13th level and every 3 levels afterwards. This bonus stacks with the Weapon Master's Superior Weapon Focus feat.[/INDENT]
 And what 10 level pre epic rule? As far as I know you need only 5 levels in any class taken before level 21, and if your just making a Fighter Weapon master, you can have a 6/34 split, or even a 5/35 split...
 
 I'm not asking this for my PC, since I am not taking Any more then 7 WM levels with Tyra. This is just a general question.

[s0ulz]

Read the Descriptions for the Feats... It says exactly how they work, which is why I asked these questions.
 
 
 
 
[lore]Superior Weapon Focus[/lore] States: [INDENT]A Weaponmaster continues to receive this feat for every five levels taken in the class (5th, 10th, 15th, etc.). The effects stack, so for instance, a character with twenty levels of weaponmaster will have a +4 bonus to attack with their weapon of choice. [/INDENT][lore]Epic Superior Weapon Focus[/lore] States: [INDENT]Specifics: The character gains a +1 bonus to all Attack Rolls made with his weapon of choice at 13th level and every 3 levels afterwards. This bonus stacks with the Weapon Master's Superior Weapon Focus feat.[/INDENT]
 And what 10 level pre epic rule? As far as I know you need only 5 levels in any class taken before level 21, and if your just making a Fighter Weapon master, you can have a 6/34 split, or even a 5/35 split...
 
 I'm not asking this for my PC, since I am not taking Any more then 7 WM levels with Tyra. This is just a general question.

I did read your first post Shiff, calm down, I'm just arguing with what LORE states, until someone proves me wrong. I'd like to know how it works in reality too.

The 10 PrC level rule I mentioned is the fact that pre-epic, you can take 10 PrC levels maximum. You can't do a 6/14 Fighter/WM split... 10/10 at best. Hence 30 PrC levels is maximum.

[ycleption]

Just to be clear, the 10 PrC level rule is an NWN limitation, not a server rule.

I just leveled up a weapon master in my Layo test module, and Superior weapon focus only appeared to be a one time thing. NWN wiki also makes no mention of it. The LORE statement was added fairly recently, and I think is probably a mistake. If I don't hear otherwise, I will remove it.

[miltonyorkcastle]

You only get the benefits of either feat if you take weaponmaster levels. If you have the feats, but take, say, rogue levels, then you will not gain any extra AB.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

You can't take the feats other then by being a Weapon Master.  They are not Layo special Feats.  They are Native NWN Class feats, so you can't take them if you're not a Weapon Master

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

You can't take the feats other then by being a Weapon Master.  They are not Layo special Feats.  They are Native NWN Class feats, so you can't take them if you're not a Weapon Master

You can get them via items, in theory.

[Faldred]

Just to be clear, the 10 PrC level rule is an NWN limitation, not a server rule.

It's a D&D 3.x rule, too.  No PrC (except some weirdos in Unearthed Arcana that are "prestige" version of base classes like Paladin) has more than 10 levels pre-epic.

However, in theory you could take two PrCs for a total of more than 10 levels pre-epic, but then you run into the server rules with regards to approvals and required CDQs, etc.  I'm not sure if there's any NWN limtation there, but I don't think there is.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Yer going off on a tangent...  *smirks*