Speak with Dead

[drakogear]

Ok so as I've been finding out more and more... Necromancy is evil... save for a few of its spells. Mainly those that don't involve the dead. (restoration, death ward ect)

In a recent thread that touched on the subject of Talk with Dead spoke of it being purely evil cause it disrupts the dead. Well, this was as thought about originally, going to be one of my Cleric/Wizards biggest things. So was wandering if there was a way one could perform such a ritual like Speak with dead with as little desecration as possible?

Was thinking after becoming a Pale Master and getting his bone arm witch he would refer to mostly as a sort of curse. A price he payed for dabbling to deeply in the necromantic arts. Always completely concealed under his cloak and when seen, gives the warning to never touch the arm. Fearing it may cause paralysis or instant death upon direct contact... But I',m rambling on... back to the question.

As a PM he would first set up the ritual possibly just setting and lighting magic candles in a circle around the corps or w/e then placing his skeletal hand on the head of the corps. His hand being about the only physical thing that touches the corps.

Note: he tends to use the skeletal arm as a focus for all his necromantic spells.

[Dorganath]

The issue is not how much one touches the corpse or how nicely one treats it. The issue is that one is using a corpse at all.

[drakogear]

Well then I been thinking... what would be the difference between this and looting a corps?

Would taking items and money and such from a corps be considered disturbing the dead?

Then again... now that I think about it... to take things from something you just killed would almost be considered dishonorable to ones fallen enemy.  That being of a warriors honor.

Maybe its from watching to many samurai shows but I've always seen a most honorable warrior being one who shows honor and mercy to even his enemies.

Though thats getting a little off topic.

[RollinsCat]

Looting an interred body, while disrespectful and probably criminal in most parts, is not even in the same galaxy as summoning a soul back from it's eternal rest to bother it with questions or worse, using the body itself (as in raising it as undead).  There is no comparison, morally.

looting the body of something you just won a fight with is, I think, more nebulous as you were (presumably) defending yourself from attack, and may need coin to repair equipment/yourself.  kind of like the end result of a successful trial without all those bothersome lawyers and judges and juries.  but all of the above is opinion only, use for justification of actions at your own risk.

[drakogear]

Well, it has been stated that Speak with Dead does not involve summoning the soul back from eternal rest for questioning. The only answers one gets is that of played back memories. The dead never even remembers being question. To the dead its pretty much like the questioning never happened.

[Gulnyr]

Speak with Dead is not part of NWN and some things in Layonara don't work like D&D rules say they do.  So is Speaking with Dead possible in Layonara?  Do Layonara bodies retain memories separate from the soul?  Does Speaking with Dead necessarily involve the body's soul in Layonara?

As far as I know, this isn't something that happens a lot, so maybe none of us know how it's supposed to work in Layonara and we're just assuming.  Assuming D&D standard works with a lot of things, but maybe not this time, y'know?

[Filatus]

It was used on Rufus WLCDQ, Ed mentions it here, but that was five years ago.

Funny I remember that thread but not what Hardragh did two weeks ago. :/

[Acacea]

Used more than once on quest for various purposes. Formerly belonging neither to "black hat" necromancy nor "white hat" but the moral gray area between. All things come to an end, however, even deliberate moral ambiguity.

[drakogear]

Ok so... Good? Evil? Neutral? Black hat? White hat? Grey hat?

[Dorganath]

This thread hasn't changed anything.  The position on Speak With Dead is that it is an evil act.  Call it a "house rule"....call it "arbitrary"...call it "stupid"....whatever. That is currently our position and I doubt it will change.

This isn't to say that a "good" character cannot perform the ritual. However, if a "good" character makes a pattern or habit of it, it will not be possible to maintain a Good alignment, but before that happens, we need to have a discussion about playing one's alignment.

[drakogear]

Well then what of a neutral character using it multiple times? Would that change him from neutral to evil?

[Dorganath]

If it becomes a pattern/habit, then yes.

Being Neutral doesn't insulate someone from the effects of committing evil as a consistent pattern of behavior.

[drakogear]

Hm, almost thinking of questioning a certain deity on this matter buuuut not going to.