Bard Song Bonus?

[SuperMunch]

Hello there!

I was looking at the NWN Wiki, more specifically the effects of the Bard Song in the NWN engine and came across an intresting fact:

Bard songs give a bonus to skill tests.

I tried this out during crafting and there were no effects of being under the influence of a bard's song and crafting, at least the percentage given to me was the same as before.

Since this skill test probably does help in other of the game's aspects, why doesn't it influence crafting?

I understand that it might unbalance the system but if you count the number of high level bards and note that the skill bonus isn't very high (except maybe of Ozymandias), it might actually make bards a little more attractive to new players.

The first bonus comes at level 6 with 12 points of performance, it's not a benefit someone would invest their time into lightly, the next one at level 11 with 18 performance, it takes a LOT of work to reach level 11, for any class.

In terms of in game reasoning, I believe it is worth it because if the song is enough to empower a character to hit truer and harder, allows a benefited character to avoid greater perils, gives the feeling of protection and more vitality - why wouldn't it give a character greater gusto to do their work?

[Dorganath]

Crafting doesn't use Bioware craft skill points in determining whether or not you're successful. Our crafting system relies upon attribute bonuses/penalties and a separate XP system. One can already boost their crafting prowess by using spells and potions that increase one or more of the required attributes, such as STR, INT or CON.
  It's important to note that the more bonuses one gets to crafting, the slower they actually progress. Granted, their success rate is higher, but the amount of XP they get is lower because things are easier.
  As for having greater "gusto"....well, forsome crafts that might make sense, for others it does not. I don't see how a bard song could/would/should enhance enchanting, infusing, scribing or alchemy for example. These are fairly precise crafts and adding a bit of flare could ruin the batch.

[SuperMunch]

Thanks for the feedback Dorganath, one can always wish for a little help from above during long grinds.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Marskmanship is an incredibly precise activity... But the better the mood you're in, the better your shot will generally be.

Bardsong doesn't provide a bit more "flair" to activities... It provides a Morale Bonus to certain things. Now, don't get me wrong, this is just my opinion as an erstwhile PnP DM, but a Morale Bonus, to me, is more than just having some music to jive to. It gives greater performance in anything, because of the self-confidence and empowered feeling that the character gets. If I'm in a grand ol' mood, I can usually churn out more hand-made grid paper, with better accuracy, than when I'm sitting there, painstakingly doing every little thing JUUUUUST right.

A Bard's song isn't just a cute little diddy to cheer the heart - It's a magical effect that you won't find coming from any common Minstrel's mouth. Bards spin the Weave with thier voices, and that should be just as obvious in having the sense of how much more dust to add to that vial as how hard to beat that iron billet, or where to strike that bloody little goblin.

That's why Bards aren't just crappy Rogue/Sorcerers with nice singing voices.

[SquareKnot]

"I don't see how a bard song could/would/should enhance enchanting, infusing, scribing or alchemy for example.  These are fairly precise crafts and adding a bit of flare could ruin the batch."

* Ifion walks into Moraken's Tower, and gently strums his mandolin, while calmly singing *

Pour that potion, use a smooth motion
Calm yourself, ignore the commotion

Now add a bottle of the right essence
Heat it slowly, watch the effervescence

Just a tiny pinch of dust
Add one more drop, if you must

Get it all into the vial
Now pause a moment, rest a while

* smiles * I'll be here all week. And if you could see yourself clear of some enchanting oil ... ?
* gestures toward his open backpack *

[Dorganath]

*chuckles*

[Serissa]

Ayla uses bless, prayer, and bardsong before attempting a difficult task.  I'm not certain it helps, but she swears by it.

Serissa

[Faldred]

It's important to note that the more bonuses one gets to crafting, the slower they actually progress.  Granted, their success rate is higher, but the amount of XP they get is lower because things are easier.

True, but there are plenty of times when you're really after the product, not the experience.  As much as Zug would be happy to improve his Smelting skill, for example, he would be much happier getting more Copper Ingots and less Smelting XP, so that he can have the ingots for other work (armor making, weapon making, tinkering, jewelry).  That said, as a player, I find buffing for crafting purposes to be slightly tacky.

[Talan Va'lash]

Dorganath - 3/8/2006  6:41 AM
I don't see how a bard song could/would/should enhance enchanting, infusing, scribing or alchemy for example.  These are fairly precise crafts and adding a bit of flare could ruin the batch.

I can't find my book to quote, but its called "Inspire Competance"

But, bardsong is implemented a lot different in NWN than PnP.  The skill bonus' are there to approximate the inspire competance class feature.

The technical reason bardsong doesn't help is that crafting isnt a "skill" game mechanics wise.

[Dorganath]

*sighs a bit*
  Our crafting system does not use "skills" as such, it uses attributes. It's built around the premise that any one can do just about any craft (barring things like class-specific requirements) and excell at it given enough time, patience and practice. One need not "build" a crafter by allocating skill points...rather, one's natural attributes can allow a character to settle into the craft/crafts in whichhe/she can do well.
  So yes...mechanically and technically speaking, bardsong doesn't really apply as it is implemented in NWN, since our crafting is not skill-based. Though I purposefully did not bring this limitation up, because often there are ways around technical issues such as these, and sometimes discussions such as these reveal creative and elegant solutions to such problems.
  Now, in my opinion, whatever inspiration may be gained from a bardsong does not necessarily translate into being able to measure precisely, or enchant properly or whatever. In combat, a bardsong does inspire...in my personal perception, it lifts the spirits, grants enthusiasm and gusto, and perhaps turns on more of the "right brain" and let's a combatant's actions be driven by feel and flare and "art" rather than precision and practice. I see crafting as needing greater precision, at least in the cases I listed.
  If I project real life, let's say I'm listening to my favorite song and writing...My mood may be elevated, and I may be inspired, but I'm also likely to write a word from the song accidentally. If I extend that to scribing, for example, I've just ruined a scroll.
  *shrugs*
  I think our crafting system currently has enough avenues for improving results, but that's just me. In this perspective, bardsong buffs don't make sense.

[Harloff]

I am sure that Elan from the order of the stick would have a fitting song for crafting... However I am afraid that it will have no effetct other than driving the crafter nuts and making faliure more probable... I am quite sure that Geir could have exactly the same effect on Skarp's carfting....

[darkstorme]

"Pound, pound, pound the armour flat!"

*clang*  "Owwwww!"

"Smash, smash, smash your pinky flat!"

"Grrr..."

"Run, run, run away from the homicidal blacksmith!"

*grins*