breaking of axes and shovels

[Stranzini]

Today I set out with a shovel to get clay - I got four pieces and my shovel broke.

Then I went with two axes to get some hickory - I got four branches and the first axe broke, I equipped the second and it broke immediately. Result - two axes, four branches.

This performance in my experience is totally average, not at all unusual. I seem to break a shovel every time I go for clay or sand or worms these days, and an axe is probably good on average for four pieces of wood.

All my other tools break from time to time as well - but nowhere near as frequently as these two. I'm not a miner, I don't know what the story is with picks.

Is whatever constant is used in the calculation of breaking for these two tools perhaps a little too harsh? I'm not finding my experience with shovels and axes very realistic and with all the competent crafters around here, I'd expect better quality goods in the market.

Does the calculation vary with some attribute of the character or are the chances the same for everyone? (Sen's not strong and has a very high dexterity, he doesnt think of himself as the kind of guy who could break an axe very easily by being too enthusiastic...)

[Dorganath]

Tool breakage was adjusted in the last update to make the tools slightly more fragile.  By "slightly" I mean the % chance for breakage went up by 0.6%, which is not much at all.
  These adjustments were made for reasons that the team considers to be important for balancing crafting speed, quantity of goods in the market and the general economy.  They were well thought out and tested before being implemented in-game.  The tool breakage you are seeing now is not a bug as such but intended behavior.
  There has been some discussion of this topic here (see my last post in the thread): http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21103&posts=11
  Having said all that, we're not completely opposed to tuning these numbers after assessing the impact on crafting as a whole.  I'd remind everyone that this new system has been in place for less than a week.  I encourage everyone who crafts and gathers CNR that requires a tool to harvest to look at a longer-term trend.  While you will find out that things break easier than they did before (which is intentional), you may also find out that the breakage overall is not that much different.
  There have been times when a single tool has lasted me for multiple (6 or more) harvesting/mining sessions without breaking.  And there have been times when I have broken 3-4 tools in one trip....and this is before the recent changes.  All I'm saying is that it should even out.

[Pen N Popper]

On a previous PW the tools breakage decreased when made with stronger metals (like iron).  Is that implemented here?  

I also assume that the chance of breaking happens per use and is not related to the "damage" done.  This means the fewer strikes the fewer chances of breaking.  Not a help for shovels, but useful for mining/chopping.

[Thunder Pants]

Pen N Popper - 1/6/2006  6:39 AM


On a previous PW the tools breakage decreased when made with stronger metals (like iron).  Is that implemented here?  

I also assume that the chance of breaking happens per use and is not related to the "damage" done.  This means the fewer strikes the fewer chances of breaking.  Not a help for shovels, but useful for mining/chopping.

on that first part, Layonara only has one type of tool set up currently, so there arn't stronger tools out there

on the second one, yes, you are correct in that the test for breakage is done at each swing of your axe, and as such, the fewer swings you take the fewer chances your ax has to break


this breakage isn't even that bad, i remember when someone accidently set the breakage way too high in V1 and tools people were going through 5 and 6 tools just to get one attempt out of a crafting bench

[Dorganath]

*points up*
  What TP said.
  There are no different grades of tools currently.  Maybe they'll be implemented, maybe they won't.  My personal guess is: not in the near future.  While annoying, tool breakage does serve to slow crafting and adds some cost to the venture, which is precisely why tools break.

[Stranzini]

And this probably explains why Sen is having such a terrible time.

He is average strength, and he's a low-medium level rogue.

He has to take a lot of swings with an axe to get each branch.

The system is perhaps tuned about right for all the big strong half-orcs and half-ogre fighters out there (who also have an easier time financing their replacement axes since they can go beat up some poor ogres or orcs to get more money any time they need it).

I find that I can start Sen chopping at a tree and go get a cup of coffee while I wait, he might or might not be finished chopping a branch off when i get back - if he doesn't break the axe. He takes a lot of swings per branch cut...and thus he breaks a lot of axes per log cut - and his economics of crafting suck compared to somebody who gets the same log in fewer swings.

Sounds like the mechanism favors strong characters with good melee numbers.

A better balanced solution might up your chance of breaking a tool if you are unusually strong and especially if you also have a low dexterity (and all those folks who like to use  power attack - yes, you know who you are - when mining or logging should be breaking their tools twice as often as the rest of us, as should anybody who tries to dual wield when noone's looking).

Agreed this problem is not new with this update, it just got maybe a little worse, its always been so. I think axes and shovels are being too badly penalized.

[Pen N Popper]

I chose power attack specifically for mining.  It is the "craft" of my PC, really:  Smashing things.

It would be very in-character for Koppig Varken to be hired as a lumberjack.  Seek him out if our times cross and he'll level a druid's grove or three for you.

[Dorganath]

Mining of ores and chopping of trees has always favored those with higher strength.  It's needed to overcome the damage reduction on the ores and trees...and it's also realistic to a high degree.
  It takes real strength to effectively chip away at stone to release the ore chunks.  It takes real strength to effectively swing an axe to chop wood.
  Conversely, a half-giant fighter is probably not going to be the best gem crafter, because Dexterity and Charisma are key to that particular craft.  And in attempting it, they'll probably lose a lot of CNR and break a lot of tools.
  Not everyone should be good at all crafts.  Some will be better than others at any given craft due to a variety of reasons.

[Stranzini]

I accept that it takes me longer to chop wood, and I dont mine at all.

The balance issue is that it takes me more axes to chop the same quantity of wood, just because of the way the algorithm works - that is what doesnt make sense.

All Im trying to say.

And fishing wasnt a craft that was breaking the economy - anyone who fishes on Layonara does it for the in-game pleasure and the role-playing it can provide.

I dont fish anymore because its just too hard to get worms. That doesnt make much sense either really does it?

[Dorganath]

You're still hitting the wood and still causing damage, even if you don't overcome DR.  It's a matter of fatigue and luck. If you have to hit a tree twice as much to get the same yield as someone stronger, you're causing more fatigue to your tools

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

You don't need worms for fishing if you can handle a good bow with fishing arrows. At only 1 coin per 99 arrows, its not a bad deal.