Master Crafter Items

[Nibor21]

Here is an idea I have been thinking about for a while now. I call it the Master Crafter idea and it is designed to allow characters to specialise in the crafting of ONE SINGLE item.
In order to make it happen, the PC goes to see the Master Crafter (an NPC), and places the item that they wish to be their unique item in a box. They then, via a conversation get to say what special abilities they want their item to have.     The list of options is based upon a.) The item base type and, b.) The item cost.
    For example a ring worth 1,000gp may permit the PC to pick one of the following as his special ability:
   

• Listen +1
• Hide +1
• Move Silently +1
• Parry +1
• Taunt +1
• Will Save +1
• Intimidate +1

               A ring worth 5,000gp may offer +2 bonuses to the above.
    A sword worth 20,000gp may offer the following:
   

• +2 fire damage
• +2 cold damage
• +2 electrical damage
• Taunt +6
• Parry +6
• Intimidate +6

           
  In order to set an item as his/her specialist item, the PC must have a 100% chance of success when crafting their one particular chosen item based upon their base ability scores (no items or buffs).
      From that point on, whenever the PC makes their chosen item it will have their selected bonus added to it.
      PCs will have to make a tough decision on what item to select as their one item as it cannot be changed at a later date. Do you go for something that requires a low crafting level, but therefore only get a low master craftsman bonus or do wait and make your chosen item be something really special?
    Characters can still craft all other items, but they will be normal items.

[Skywatcher]

Another way to do this sort of thing would be to allow crafters to request to make a master work like they would for a CDQ or multi-class and the DMs could look at the item the crafter desired to make and come up with a list of the required materials and the percentage chance based on the crafter's level of expertise.  Say a Wizard wanted to craft a staff that would give +5 spellcraft and concentration add a sixth level spell per day.  The team could look and determine the level requirement once crafted and the materials required.  Each crafter would only be allowed to create one such item.  It could be for personal use or for sale.  It would give some creativity to unique and tailored items and be a reward for reaching a high level of crafting expertise.  The item description would include the fact that this was so and so's master work.

[Nibor21]

While I like your concept, I was (selfishly) looking at it from a coding perspective and trying to come up with idea that enabled these items to be produced without GM or project team intervention once it was all created.

The idea was that these special items could be mass produced by the individual crafter. The special power almost there because the PC has become such an expert in the creation of this item.

It would also diversify the marketplace in the world as PCs would shop around more - generally trying to buy a specialist item that suits thier build

[Nibor21]

Did no one else like this idea? I was hoping for some more feedback on it. I guess it was only a cool idea in my head. *looks glum*

[Faldred]

I like the idea... I'm just wondering:

a) how possible it would be to do (let me guess... store a variable on the crafter badge?)
b) would this be unbalancing?

Other than those concerns, though, anything that makes crafting less of an "assembly line" process and more of a personal and specialized skill is a good idea in my book.

On point A, if the mechanism is attached to the badge itself, it could be possible to have two specialized items -- one "lesser item" (available from basic crafting halls/stations) and one "greater" item (available from advanced crafting halls/stations); this would allow a crafter to "specialize" in something early enough in his or her career to make a "name", while not preventing the ability to be a true master of a particular item later.

My big concern on point B is the potential abuse of pawn shops.  The extra abilities/features are going to raise the price offered by the pawn shops -- would it be by enough to make the new "specialty item" a source for (too) easy revenue?

[Nibor21]

Actually i would store it on the PC - so only one item could be done.
The balancing would be the issue. Its one of the reasons why the uniqueness needs to be pretty minor in comparison to the base item. Some things like additions to will saving throws should be a no-no. Otherwise a warrior could buy all his kit with say +3 death saves on and then wander around storan's with out fear of the Bodaks

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Actually, this is sounding like a "Masterwork Item" discussion... Which I believe has been alluded to for V3 in the past, at least as something to look at.

If we're to implement Mwk items, that'll effectively double the number of items in the pallette. At least. And that's only if we're just increasing whatever the current capabilities of the item a bit...

I'm not sure if there would be a quick way to do it, but... I would like to see Masterwork items show up. However,  these Masterwork items should only (in my opinion) provide an increased benefit from the standard one... For example, if one specializes in Emerald Set in Bronze Amulets, they'd perhaps give +1 Fort and Will in addition to +1 Universal.

A big problem to keep in mind is the pawn shops. What's stopping anyone from just making a bamzillion extra-nifty cheapo items and selling them to Calendel? The normal Greenstone in Copper might not be but 1gp, but what if it were a Masterwork Greenstone in Copper? That might be worth more. Or topaz... Or alexandrite. It would basically allow people to churn out items that were worth more, while using materials that cost less, ending in a net increase in the GP in circulation.

And that's something we don't want.

That said... If there were a way to work it out so that the above exploitive (if only mildly, and only in comparison to current systems) behavior wouldn't be as effective, then the idea gains more merit. For example, increasing the worth and/or quantity of the materials to go into Masterwork items.

[Black Cat]

Perhaps to avoid the selling of such items to pawnshop, it would be possible to set them as unsellable (stolen flag or anything). Some items in the game are worth 0 trues and cannot be sold but can still be given away (sold to other players). I don't know how this would be doable though.

[Faldred]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/22/2007  9:38 AM

Actually, this is sounding like a "Masterwork Item" discussion... Which I believe has been alluded to for V3 in the past, at least as something to look at.

If we're to implement Mwk items, that'll effectively double the number of items in the pallette. At least. And that's only if we're just increasing whatever the current capabilities of the item a bit...

I'm not quite sure how the toolset works (never played with it myself), but I think this might be different than the "masterwork" issue in that it's still the same item, just with an additional property added.  Now, what I don't know is whether adding a property to an existing palette item requires creating a new palette item or not.  If it doesn't, than this is less of a burden -- simply add the property to the item when it is created.  If it does, well... back to square one.

[Faldred]

Something else to consider if this plan is implemented -- there should be a public (and easily accessible) list of "master crafters".  While I don't think it would make sense to prohibit two people from specializing in the same item, players (or more specifically, characters) should be aware of how many other crafters specialize in the item they're thinking about -- to really take advantage of the system and stand out as a "unique" crafter/vendor, I would imagine that folks would want to make sure that they aren't the 10th crafter to specialize in fire-enhanced iron longswords.

[Honora]

I think it's a wonderful idea, but I would modify it in one way; make it a 40% or even 30% chance, and link it to level 20+ crafters.  Why?  To prevent a flood of these items.  Honora, for example, would immediately start making special dire bear gloves, which she still only has a base 40% chance at with 22 in tailoring.  But even with buffs, when you factor in the cold-hearted mistress that is the RNG, it will make success count for something.  It encourages people to strive to master their craft, and it presents a "bronze ring", a pinnacle of the craft so to speak.  

Other than that, it's a great idea!!

[Nibor21]

Well to stop the flood was why i suggested that crafter must have a 100% success rate when not buffed or any other stat bonuses.

After all to get to say level 20 you have essentially years of labour for your craft to get there. You have seen great success and just as likely some huge and utterly embarrassing failures in your crafting (Karana was once showing someone how to make bronze weapons on which she had a 90% success rate - she failed three in a row - the person she was teaching probably went and found another teacher!)

[Crunch]

Actually requiring someone to be level 20+ to make the item might make it impossible for some of the best crafters to even make the items.  A number of crafts such as alchemy and infusing max out around 17th or 18th level if you are attributes are right for it.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

I think just starting a new series of recipes on the Advanced tables would be a good idea.

Masterwork items. They would require higher crafting levels, more/better materials, and give better bonuses.

For example, you could make a Masterwork Greenstone set in a Copper Ring.

The greenstone would require diamond dust to be polished in addition to the normal things, yeilding a Masterwork Fine Greenstone.

Then the ring itself would take an ingot of copper and an ingot of gold, yeilding not only the ring in the end but also a Mangled Metal of either Gold or Copper (50% of either).

Or better yet, just make the items combinations... And limit the materials used.

Masterwork Greenstone and Malachite ring.

+3 vs. Poison, +3 vs. Disease.

2 Greenstone, 2 Malachite, 4 Diamond Dust (or something else suitable), Gold & Platinum.

You get the idea.

[Nibor21]

The reason I suggested what i suggested was that it means no need to add more recipes to the system - the system just does a check after creation.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Nibor21 - 2/24/2007  2:52 AM

The reason I suggested what i suggested was that it means no need to add more recipes to the system - the system just does a check after creation.

Aye... However, Masterwork items are a staple of D&D, and the balance issues discussed above would apply to the "better" normally-made items.