Author Topic: Minerals and Camping (Read 553 times)

Chrys Ellis · « **on:** January 04, 2006, 01:37:00 pm »

I worry a little bit about game balance with mineral deposits depleting more easily than ever. Some of the higher end minerals are not easy to get to, and when a party makes the effort to get to them, only to have all of them deplete the moment they are touched, you can see how the party would want to stick around for a re-spawn of the deposit, before making the long trip back. Perhaps this would lead to an accusation of camping, and where do you draw the line here?
Would it be possible to lower the chance of depletion considerably, but have that percentage go up by 1 every round the mineral is being mined? That way, it will surely tap out in time, but give miners a chance at getting some minerals, at least, before it disappears.

Dorganath · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2006, 01:48:00 pm »

Mineral deposit breakage only increased by 1%....and it's already pretty low, so lowering it "considerably" is not an option.
Chances of finding a mineral during any given attempt went down by about 4%. High-end spawns and low-end spawns operate on the exact same principle and with the exact same chances for breakage, return, etc.
We want to restrict resources a bit. Your suggestion almost sounds like it would actually produce more minerals than before the update...which is not what we want.
That said, if we have to tune things more, we will. However I'd ask that you spend more than a couple days at this to get a better feel for the overall returns. This system hasn't even been in place for a week yet. We did a lot of testing before this was released, and a lot of thought was given to the numbers. I think it's worthwhile to also give some time and thought to see if the current system is working the way it was intended or to see if it can be adjusted before suggesting changes.
For what it's worth, even before this update, one of my characters has gone and mined all 6 greenstone deposits in the Red Light Caverns, and on one trip alone, I broke 3 chisels and got exactly one chunk of mineral.

Chrys Ellis · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2006, 03:04:00 pm »

Quote

Dorganath - 1/4/2006 1:48 PM For what it's worth, even before this update, one of my characters has gone and mined all 6 greenstone deposits in the Red Light Caverns, and on one trip alone, I broke 3 chisels and got exactly one chunk of mineral.

Well, this was essentially my point. I had noticed before the update that mineral deposits seemed to tap out pretty easily, and experiences like the one you just mentioned were somewhat common. When you're mining greenstones it's not such a big deal because there are plenty of things to do nearby to bide your time until more are available.
When you're mining something like diamonds, though, it's more likely you'll sit close by and wait, based on the location. I just see the notion of camping getting a little more gray for people when they've made it to a resource and gotten nothing on the first go-around. I hope that's clear. I'm not asking for more minerals each time you mine; just pointing out some game balance issues as I see them.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2006, 03:50:00 pm »

Camping by definition wont change... and if people try and push the limit theyr are gonna get burned.

I dont think having any kind of guarantee that you will get minerals, ore or wood is a good thing... Yes its a pain in the rear to go try and get Diamonds, Cobalt, Ada, or Yew.... Lets look at why..

So people who should be there don't go there and get a boat load of em and sell them sending the econonomy further into a tailspin.

High end materials should be hard to get and their should be no guarantee of a big haul.... most should't ever give a big haul anyway (that economy issue again).

Yes it is hard to go get Diamonds, or Yew or what not... but because you go and the tree, ore or mineral deposit goes Pffft... that doesnt mean you sit there an wait for it to respawn. Try again later in the day... or another day.

Heck the hourney to and from should be equally as much a part we look forward to as the item we seek.

Pre change I have had very mixed results with minerals... I went to get Amethyst once and got 15 from one deposit.

Went other times and got none....

If you get none... that was a bad deposit... or RP it as you see fit... but 15 from one... that was too much really.

I've had to leave deposits behind before cause I couldnt even walk at normal speed.... pre changes.

lets give this more time... get a notepad and take notes of deposits tried... how fast they fizzle and all that stuff...

it wil help the content team out.

Asmodean · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2006, 09:38:00 pm »

Ok, I just broke 2 axes in a span of 2 minutes. 4 hickory trees disappeared and I got a reasonable haul for my effort. (10 branches). Luckily, the orcs were carrying enough gold for me to buy back my two axes. However before this, I did do some greenstone mining. I hauled out 20 stones after I waited for a respawn of almost all the piles 1 time. This didn't take too long, say 15-20 minutes in total, since they disappeared so quickly the first time! For the simple stuff, I don't really care for the changes, but so far don't mind them too much. But if this is all to slow down certain trades, I think I'm already slow enough. I only get 3xp everytime I smash greenstone to dust. At this rate, I'd have to mine over 220 more minerals to reach next level. In the process, I'm sure I'll break 150 chisels.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2006, 12:32:00 am »

try cutting and polishing some minerals instead of smashing them to dust ... might learn you more.... if you havnt already.

cappyra · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2006, 08:53:00 am »

Rules concerning camping:

http://www.layonaraonline.com/player_info/camping.asp

According to this you can remain in a CNR area for around 30 minutes. So if the CNR respawns within the time limit I think it would be OK. However roleplay it out. Long ago Aleister and I went to the Cave near Saudria looking for silver. Each vein took one wack and poofed. We returned to Saudria and I roleplayed asking around the bar for any prospectors. After a few drinks one of them provided some information. Sometimes... the giants would pack wet sand over the silver veins in order to mask them.

Back to the cave we went and with a good bit of "tapping" the walls we discovered another vein. It was all done roleplay and of course after our second visit we did not return.

As far as high end minerals... I suspect you mean diamonds. I only know two places where diamonds can be found. Both are quite deadly (at least for me) and I have never been there except with large groups and only then less than a handful of times, then only once to specifically mine. It sounds like your trips are quite routine. Feel fortunate that you are one of the few that can get there routinely =) I have to depend on that once in a great while mystery mineral to get a diamond.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2006, 11:28:00 am »

Just wandered into Dire Woods Cave

2 Topaz deposits

first gave 7

second gave 3

NO broken chisels, no MM's

Pibemanden · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2006, 11:30:00 am »

Thats the most I have even seen anyone get from those deposits. Usually it's 0-2 on one trip, or at least the ones I have participated in.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2006, 06:17:00 pm »

I used to see plent of O'fers before the changes.

Things are looking fine to me thus far... my biggest concern is breakage... having been thru the mother of all breakage changes long ago... I can promise you the change to breakage now is microscopic...

Picture needing 12 picks or chisels to get one ore or mineral.... yeah that was brutal

I do encourage those who think the changes are too drastic to actually take notes of their, gem and ore mining, digging, and wood chopping... give it a week or two and see how things end up on your chart.

G-452

Ozy_Llewellyn · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2006, 02:51:00 am »

Only one thing to note, and that’s the certain policy of having things uniform throughout the system. Half the forms of harvestable you are guaranteed one object for your troubles.

Mining – When the rock breaks, you receive one final nugget.
Wood chopping – When the tree breaks, you receive one final branch.
Harvesting – There is at least 1 item within the object.

However, when digging any object from gems to clay or worms there is no surety of receiving one item for your troubles. One could go on to elaborate possible changes to the system, come up with clever arguments then counter arguments. However that has at least once in history, caused the entire point to be lost. So I leave it at this and spare us all the trouble of any more opinions unneeded and unheeded from me.

Have a nice day.

Talan Va'lash · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:16:00 pm »

I'm acctually with Ozy on this one.

Even if the % of the deposit dissapearing was increased by quite a bit, making it so that you got 1 clay/sand/gem/whatever when it dissapeared thusly guaranteeing at least 1 item from each deposit, even if the % was modified so that overall the average yield was the same, the frusteration factor would be greatly decreased.

This is pretty much a psychological issue, as a deposit dissapearing without getting anything from it is disproportionately frusterating for what is happening. Somehow getting "thats the end of that" on the first click, or before getting anything, is more frusterating than getting a string of oh... 10 items from one deposit is un-frusterating. If that makes any sense. On a larger scale, for example, a trip through the redlight caves for greenstone is very frusterating if the deposits all dissapear on the first click, and you only manage to get one stone. There are tons of time I've gotten good rolls and gotten like.. 28 stones on one trip. Probably more or as many times as I've gotten a very low number. However, my brain doesn't seem to take that into account when I get "thats the end of that" on first click 6 times in a row.

Basically, what I'm saying, is if we increase the chances of the deposit ending overall, but make it so that when a deposit ends you get 1 item, with the intent of balancing the %'s so that average yield is the same, it would lessen the frustration that people are feeling over this issue and that we have seen displayed on the forums so prominently lately.

-TV

Leanthar · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2006, 08:37:00 pm »

I would agree that all harvesting/gathering should give 1 item (at least). On that point we can agree and the team will fix those that do not give the 1 item.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2006, 12:51:00 pm »

... Have I mentioned I love you, L? You've just taken my chances of crying over the loss of that topaz deposit from about 50% to 10%.

egoober · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2006, 04:26:42 pm »

Haven't seen any comments about this topic in a while, so a comment here seems justified.
I'll be specific, as it's only the one deposit that has affected my character. I have made around six trips into Haven mines recently, atempting to collect quartz. Those trips have yeilded TWO quartz crystals. Thats not two per trip, thats two in total. Usually, the deposit disapears with the usual "thats the end of that" message - with no crystal to show for it.
Now, I can accept a degree of bad luck, but I would have hoped for at least one crystal per attempt?

Leanthar · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2006, 05:41:52 pm »

You should be getting at least 1 crystal. I believe Dorganath has that code in place at least.

Dorganath · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2006, 06:02:57 pm »

Dorganath has that code in-progress. Heh...I should have it to orth for the next update.

Chrys Ellis · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2006, 06:21:34 pm »

Will this apply to all harvestable resources?

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2006, 06:49:44 pm »

(Warning: Possibly idiotic personal opinion ahead.)

It should; the resources are challenging to get to in proportion to the usefulness of the resource. Or at least, that's the intent for them.

Stranzini · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2006, 08:13:18 am »

With respect to the point - I think it started with Ozy - about getting at least one of something before a tool breaks...

Something similar is currently a problem for tools in the crafting hall. The check for whether the tool breaks is apparently being made if you access a station and not only if you actually attempt to do something - it has happened a number of times that I am just placing the resource on the table and looking at the recipe to see what else I am going to need, before rummaging in my packs further or having to go off and get something if I don't have all I need...and I will break my tuning fork/sewing needle/carpenter's tools/etc.

It's at least much as much of a bummer to break a tool when you didnt actually go to use one and didn't get to even try to make something as it is to break axe/pick/shovel without getting anything...and seems even less realistic.

Perhaps you could give a look at fixing this logic too?