Rogue Leather Armor

[Pen N Popper]

The stats below are what I could glean from the forums for roguish armors.

• Jaguar Leather (+0/6 Level 5)
• +3 Search
• +3 Spot
• +3 Tumble

• Panther Leather (+1/6 Level 10)
• +3 Hide
• +3 Move Silently
• +3 Search
• +3 Tumble

• Lesser Rogue Armor (+1/6 Level 8 )
• +1 Hide
• +1 Search
• +1 Tumble

• Normal Rogue Armor (+2/6 Level 12)
• +2 Hide
• +2 Search
• +2 Tumble

• Greater Rogue Leather (+3/6 Level 18)
• +3 Hide
• +3 Search
• +3 Tumble

[/list]  The three rogue leathers don't appear all that special. Could they be distinguished a bit further from other common leather armors in some way?
  Personally, I'd like to see the max dex bonus eliminated, as that is the rogues strong stat.

[Guardian 452]

I would also say that Malar Panther suits would be of interest to a Rogue.

Malar - +2 AC, +3 Hide, Move Silent, Search, Spot, Tumble (Level 15)



About a year ago all the "normal" leather armors were remodeled by Aryn Revenlocke and myself in an attempt to make them more desired instead of everyone who could just going with metal suits.


The Rogue suits you mentioned are recipies carried over from the last version of Layonara.

IMO to REALLY appeal to a rogue who is a HIGH DEX class... a Rogue Specific suit should have NO MAX DEX penalty like the Reinforced clothing line.

[Dorganath]

Unless I'm mistaken (and it's quite possible this morning), the max DEX modifier for armors is a function of its base armor class. Leather armors (really all armors) have an inherent base AC, and in addition there's often a +1/+2/+3 on top of that as a bonus, depending on the grade.
  About the only "armor" that doesn't have a max DEX modifier is essentially clothing (base AC 0)...this is essentially what Mage Armor is...clothing with an AC bonus and some other goodies for mages. The problem is, its base AC actually gives very little protection, as another thing that is linked to base AC is the chance for arcane spell failure. The best one is Greater Mage Armor, which gives a +3 to AC...so let's say a Mage with a DEX of 14 (+2) was wearing this, his AC would be 15 (10 + DEX mod + 3). This AC is about on-par with normal, unenhanced, plain leather armor...if not slightly worse.
  The point I'm getting at here is that in order to achieve the same AC benefit AND remove the armor check penalty for rogues, the armor would have to have a base AC of 0 and the be compensated with bonuses to AC (unless there's an option I'm forgetting in the toolset...which is not in front of me at the moment). So at that point, we're getting into +4/+5/+6/+7...possibly more. These types of bonuses send the item value up quite high, and thereby push the level requirement up as well. Greater Mage Armor (Base AC 0, +3 AC , + Spellcraft/Lore bonuses) has a level requirement of 18, I believe.
  So there's a trade-off, and things like that keep the game balanced. If you don't mind sacrificing AC, then I believe reinforced clothing is an option as well. Granted, there's no rogue-ish bonuses, but there's also no check penalty.

[Pen N Popper]

I'd wear some "ninja" clothing instead of leather armor.  Perhaps that is padded armor with hide, move silently, and tumble bonuses.  Perhaps it is reinforced clothing styles with those skill bonuses.

[Guardian 452]

Those who have a DEX modafier of 6 or more..... If they wear Studded, Hide or plain leather armor they actually loose AC. unless the AC bonus to said armor is high enough to cover the DEX cut they suffer.

That's why Enzo wears Cobalt Clothing. This is a low magic world and +3 things are about the best people will see for a very very long time. I don't expect him to find any leather suits with like +5 or more AC, that would cover the max dex penalty.


Padded is an option  Max Dex of 8, but we dont have many padded suits right now. But if your Dex Modifier is higher than 8, again you will take a hit putting it on.

[lonnarin]

It'd be a good idea to take that base template for the rogue armors and making studded leather, hide and plainclothes versions.  Fast or slow, rogues come in all forms.

[Faldred]

lonnarin - 7/27/2006  12:09 PM

It'd be a good idea to take that base template for the rogue armors and making studded leather, hide and plainclothes versions.  Fast or slow, rogues come in all forms.

Absolutely.  Just for fun, I've been drafting up some templates for a Half-Giant "thuggish" Rogue -- might actually work better as a Rogue/Fighter, but the levels would have to be even to avoid the XP penalty (ECL 3 + XP penalty??? Yeesh...)

Not a stealth specialist, but rather someone who will hack you to bits from behind, and can still handle a pesky trap or lock once in a while.

[Talan Va'lash]

Guardian 452 - 7/27/2006  8:19 AM  Padded is an option  Max Dex of 8, but we dont have many padded suits right now. But if your Dex Modifier is higher than 8, again you will take a hit putting it on.  

 
  I see a large variety of padded armors in your future. *shakes the magic 8ball*

[Pen N Popper]

What's the verdict on this? Should I look forward to some new recipes or should I put all hope aside of stealthy rogue wear (clothes, padded, etc.)?

[Leanthar]

The problem is that we need a database interface for CNR. Since we switched over to the DB method the module is faster (not as many spikes) but now creating/changing CNR item is a nightmare. So first we have to get that interface and that is far easier than it sounds. LOTS of time and effort.

[DeadHead Fred]

So.... it sounds like you're saying that there will be padded armors in the future, but it takes a while and we should just be patient... (yaaaay!)

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

How's this for an idea: Hire someone specifically to do the DB work. We've got people just for Character Approving, we've got people on the Writing team...

Why not someone for the Database editing?

[Dorganath]

Because the database is what runs this whole place.  Access is restricted. Only a few GMs even have that access.  If we had a system in place to allow editing without direct access, then that might be another story.  As it is, however, we don't, and the database is simply too critical to just hire "someone" to edit it.

[Pen N Popper]

Any thoughts on new rogue clothing?  Talan, were you just teasing with our visions of padded armor?  I'd still go for the plain clothing with rogue bonuses.

[pejsaboy]

The padded suits with bonuses would be nice, I'll admit that. For my own rogue though, I've just got him in some Iron reinforced that I got lucky and made myself. I could still be wearing the padded without getting Dex cut, but If I were to get a Cat's grace cast on me, it would likely be a more or less wasted spell as far as the AC bonus is concerned. The other bonus of the clothing: it only weighs one pound. The extra four pounds for the padded isn't significant, but I'll take any loss I can sitting at a 10 str *grins* since the iron is a lower level req than the platty I could be wearing, I should be able to put [at least one] elemental resistance on it. Again, my opinion, but I'll take that over a few skill points.

[Dorganath]

OK, the new silk-based armors (with no dex penalty, I'll add) are in and craftable. You should take a look at what these things do .
  These are the things to which Talan alluded a while back.

[Pen N Popper]

Just to clarify, it appears the new silk armors do have DEX bonus limits. Perhaps someone could post the stats for the new armors in detail here?

[Pen N Popper]

I think my request remains open for armors that rogues would find desirable. Personally I'm thinking along the lines of reinforced clothing (variable AC bonus w/ no DEX bonus limit) coupled with rogue skill pluses (hide, move silently, spot, search, tumble).
  Perhaps reinforced clothing made with the new spider silks (dark, bebilith, queen)?
  I would like to see the level requirements be inline with the current leather armors (panther, malar, etc.) that give bonuses to rogue skills.
  Thoughts and other suggestions?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

X-reinforced Z silk?

Iron, Platinum, Addy, Cobalt, Mithral.

Dark, Bebilith, Queen.

There's another fifteen items... Though that's not too bad, honestly. For higher-level DEX-based characters, ANY Maximum Dexterity is a bad thing, and the current options, while pretty darn nifty, are somewhat limited when compared to the varieties offered by metal and leather armors. Though this may be by design.