Throwing Axes

[Eeroas]

About axe weight issue.

Maybe you can make new throwing axes with lower base weight? By new weapon I mean melee weapon like Falchion, heavy mace, maul etc., not appearance change as in weapons like fan that use base statistics of some other weapon. That should remove issues about weight as there would not be need for extra weight reduction property that would mess up item levels and prices.

[Dorganath]

The issue with weight is that it applies to a single item, not a whole stack, and when stacked, the weight is multiplied. This is why fine gems are weightless, because if we gave them any weight at all (within NWN's granular limitations), their weight would add up very quickly.

Weight reduction properties are one way to go, but they can skew the price and level requirements as well, as has been observed.  The other way to go is to either change the base item or make a new base item upon which the axes are made. This is probably the best approach, but it also takes a HAK update, and either way, I still have to look at the weight of a stack, not just one axe.

[Chazzler]

How about adding a Weight Reduction, and then adjusting the price of the stack / one axe by modifying it's Price Reduction % ?

There's at least one item IG that has Price Reduction to it, otherwise the item would be something outrageous in level limit (Robes of the Broken Hope)

[Dorganath]

How about adding a Weight Reduction, and then adjusting the price of the stack / one axe by modifying it's Price Reduction % ?

There's at least one item IG that has Price Reduction to it, otherwise the item would be something outrageous in level limit (Robes of the Broken Hope)

Good thought and it's crossed my mind already.

The price reduction property is intended for special purposes, not general use. It's also not very precise and generally a pain to get dialed in just right.  I'd rather avoid it if possible.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Well not that I'm one using throwing axes, the fact a stack can weigh close to the same as a suit of armor is nuts.  All other ranged weapons are light and there ammo stacks can be carried in surplus.

Now, Axes do gain the advantage of having mighty as an innate property to them, but that doesn't explain why they are so heavy, or expensive.  It would be nice if some sort of fix could come about eventually, but what exactly could be done, I have no idea.  But I would definitely use them more if they weren't a nuisance to carry.

[gilshem ironstone]

Well not that I'm one using throwing axes, the fact a stack can weigh close to the same as a suit of armor is nuts.  All other ranged weapons are light and there ammo stacks can be carried in surplus.

Now, Axes do gain the advantage of having mighty as an innate property to them, but that doesn't explain why they are so heavy, or expensive.  It would be nice if some sort of fix could come about eventually, but what exactly could be done, I have no idea.  But I would definitely use them more if they weren't a nuisance to carry.

1 pound per axe is actually light for something like that I would imagine.  The issue with the axes is that they are not retrievable.  So instead of being able to carry only six or so, you have to carry tens or hundreds of them.  

I think the weight adjustment that Dorg is looking in to will be a nice compromise to balancing the weapons usefulness with the complexities of the game mechanics.

[Dorganath]

Well not that I'm one using throwing axes, the fact a stack can weigh close to the same as a suit of armor is nuts.

Not really.  If you consider that a real throwing axe is probably somewhere between 1-2lbs. each (potentially more), and they're fairly bulky items, there's no real justification for them being featherweight nor for anyone person to be able to carry and easily access hundreds of them.

The only reason I'm really considering a weight reduction is as a compromise due to game mechanics.

[davidhoff]

What Eoras suggested is sounding interesting...make a new layo weapon (like the maul, falchion, etc).  Call it something like Elite Throwing Axe and give it a weight of 0.1 lbs./per axe...so a stack of 50 would be 5 lbs.  How hard would that be to make and implement?

[darkstorme]

What Eoras suggested is sounding interesting...make a new layo weapon (like the maul, falchion, etc).  Call it something like Elite Throwing Axe and give it a weight of 0.1 lbs./per axe...so a stack of 50 would be 5 lbs.  How hard would that be to make and implement?

Really quite substantially difficult.  Bear in mind that the Layo Custom Weapons are actually from the CEP, and took people weeks or months to make, model, and test.

[davidhoff]

I almost wana say just use darts and RP that they are throwing axes..he he.  

Or, just thinking now, would there be a way to create a new type of dart, but give it the visual effect of holding throwing axes.  For example, call the new weapon "elite throwing axes", they would have the exact properties of a stack of darts (1d4, mighty, crit x 2, etc), but the visual when holding them would look like holding a throwing axe?

[Dorganath]

Or.....reduce the weight of the axe to match a dart? Seems a lot simpler, doesn't it?

[gilshem ironstone]

If it is indeed that easy, then yes, it does sound simpler.

[darkstorme]

It's just a change in line 63 of baseitems.2da, as far as I know.

Edit: Possibly, to address the other part of the OP's concerns, the BaseCost could be set equivalent to the dart as well?

[Masterjack]

This has been a worth while thread. Everyone trying to work together to make things go better. All done with maturity and respect. I wish my work place operated like this.

[jrizz]

Weight reduction does seem to be the simplest way. The value of that is that it does not introduce anything that needs testing. It also keeps in place all current aspects of throwing axes. But a collection script would be cool Then is would be worth making a stack of mithy throwing axes that would last a bit longer

[Script Wrecked]

Yes, it [POST=1499332]does[/POST].

The only thing is, as, say, 50 axes are being used to represent 5 axes which are being retrieved ~10 times, the axe thrower would have to solemnly swear only to throw 5 axes in each combat.

Or, 50 axes representing 10 axes (retrieved 5 times) would mean only 10 throwings per combat.

You can't really throw out all your axes in one combat because you can't stop and gather up axes in the middle of combat.

Another point:

Theoretically, the weight of the "batch"/"clump" of throwing axes should remain the same throughout "life" of the batch, as the number of throwing axes represents the number of throws; you always have the 10 axes to throw.

However, the weight would decrease with each throw, as per NWN mechanics (and there is no way to change this).

If the "decreasing weight when it should remain constant" issue is too much of a freebie, you could offset it by having the weight be twice as much as it should be. This way, the "average" weight of the axes over the life of the batch would be correct.

Therefore, 50 axes representing 10 axes (limiting 10 throws per combat) should weigh 20% of the current weight (50 * 20% = 10), 10lbs. The adjusted weight would be 40% of the current weight, 20lbs.

For 50 axes representing 5 axes (5 throws per combat) should weigh 5lbs, adjusted weight 10lbs.

Both of which are still significant compared to the weight of a bow and the weightlessness of arrows. However, it is more workable.

[Obsydian]

Wow.  I leave the thread for a little while, and this happens to it.  Now I'm glad I brought it back up!

I'd be very happy with the reduction in weight and cost.  (So would Halrath!)

It would also be a halfway solution to the "wasting a stack of crafting throwing axes" that Jrizz suggested to increase the output (or decrease the material requirements, or both) of the craftable throwing axes.  (As in my original post, I suffered from minor envy upon hearing that arrow output had been switched from 20 to 99, and they only need one ingot of metal and log of wood!)

[davidhoff]

FYI - One other issue with throwing axes is that when you apply an elemetal damage rod to a stack of axes the rod dissappears (one use), but if you apply that same rod to a stack of arrows you can use that same rod 10 times.

[Dorganath]

FYI - One other issue with throwing axes is that when you apply an elemetal damage rod to a stack of axes the rod dissappears (one use), but if you apply that same rod to a stack of arrows you can use that same rod 10 times.

Good point.