Great Forest Genesai: Spawn placement + Death Spells

[lonnarin]

Description:  Was with Lareth and Czukay in the Great Forest and we decided to face the genesai.  Had both true seeing and protection vs. death spells up and got wiped out twice by their weird spells.  Kurn should have been immune to that.

Also they seemed to respawn directly next to the transition leaving the woods going back towards Hilm in an effort to trap us there.  Very bad, since that sort of spawn placement will catch people unprepared who happen to be entering that neck of the woods.  Spawns should NEVER be on top of transition points!

Location: Great Forest where the Genesai cast weird and hug their magic tree.

Verified: Preaccure was present.

Reproducable: Happened twice in a row before I logged off in frustration.

[Dorganath]

I'll take a look at the spawn placement because there shouldn't be any spawns appearing at transitions. One possibility here is that the genasi are "placed" and not spawned, and that someone dragged them to that location near the transition.  If killed in that spot, sometimes a glitch will reset their respawn locations to the place they were killed rather than where they were placed.  Regardless, I'll have a look.

As for the effects of Weird, if True Seeing was up, Kurn would have immunity.  However, if there was also a spell up that gave immunity to Fear, then due to a Bioware bug there would have been an auto-fail and Kurn would have died. If you have logs, you can see this by a lack of saving throws after Weird is cast just before Kurn died. If you do see at least one saving throw without a message about True Seeing in your log as well, then it's likely that True Seeing was not in effect at the time.  

Immunity vs. Death has no effect on Weird.

[Chongo]

To save you the time of looking in the mod Dorg - there's a trigger at the Y junction heading north, and there's a trigger right on the tree that backspawns the air gens at the Y junction.  I think the only preplaced are under the tree, a trolloc type and the primal gen.  The backspawn was always there - I think whoever made it was trying to keep player groups fighting altogether instead of having a kite job.  The backspawn flag is at the Y junction though, just slightly east of it.  It's not on the transition though.  I moved it a couple years back to keep it off the transition and only pop up if someone actually walked right under (hit) the yew.

Lonn - the earth gens have a dispel on their clubs.  There's a primal gen there with mords or breach or something on his I believe.  You prolly got your TS dispelled.

Not going to comment on whether it's fair or cool or the best balance or whatever - just letting you know what happened.  I'd bet ten bucks that the logs show a spell stripping once you went in on melee and got hit.

[Dorganath]

Thanks Chongo, but I'm still going to check.  A lot of the Great Forest areas have been tweaked slightly since you had access to them, so it's possible an unintended mistake crept in with regards to these particular spawns.

[Lareth]

Just to confirm what Lonn said, Lareth buffed Kurn and Czukay, with TS and Lssr Mind Blank, which shouldn't trip the Immunity to Fear + TS bug.  My recollection is that Kurn was taken down by the 1st weird as we engaged, so not sure that he even got hit by one of the Gensai.

[davidhoff]

Sorry to hear of the losses there.  That area has given me some problems for sure in the past.  However, I actually like the way that spawn works, where if you chop on the tree you have to fight your way out of the new spawn (well unless you chicken out inivisible).

I don't think true sight is breachable, at least that is my in-game experience.  I'm pretty sure the earth gensai "breach" you on hit, and don't dispell.  I doubt Kurn's group spawned the Primal.  It's possible (but doubtful) one of the other creatures (howling shaman thingy)  casted a dispell type spell that took off your true sight.  So, you really should have still had your true sight up for the whole battle if it was casted I'm thinking.

[Dorganath]

OK, after some poking around, I have been able to confirm the spawn point placements and other things.  As the module is set right now, the spawn points in that area are not too close to any transitions. It is possible that the spawned Air Genasi that spawn at the "Y" that Chongo described wandered too close to the area transition on the south end of the area, but I let my test run for something like 45 minutes and they never wandered close enough to see someone at the transition.

So I'm not sure what happened there, but build-wise, it looks OK to my eyes.

I also confirmed the Lesser Spell Breach on the Earth Genasi clubs, so if you have logs and can verify any of the above speculation, that would be great.  If you think there's something going on with Weird, have a GM help you test it out with and without buffs.

[Dorganath]

Oh and also the Primal genasi don't have any thing like Dispel or Disjunction as a spell, and neither do any of the other ones that I could see (though I could have missed one).

Spell Breach does not remove True Seeing, so yeah, if you can, please check your logs for the saves and also to make sure it was really Weird that killed Kurn and not something else.

[osxmallard]

I was online as a GM at the time (but with the group in the deep not lonn's party).  There was a mass disconnection which dropped about 4-5 of the party members with the deep crew, and almost immediately afterwards  I saw lonn's death in the scroller.  

I asked him via tell if his death was due to the disconnect and he didn't think it was at the time, then I saw him die again within a few minutes in the scroller and he logged right away.

The only thing I added to one of lonn's spawns earlier in the evening was a giant chieftan near the bridges of the greater bear cave.  I did not move, add, or change any of the genasi yew spawns (not that anyone thought I did, just being clear).

[willhoff]

I'm pretty sure those Giant Chieftan's have cast Mordaken's disjunction on Vrebel in the past.  Its possible that Kurn got his true seeing dispelled/disjuncted by the chieftan, especially if you didnt rest before going to the yew.

[Chongo]

Oh and also the Primal genasi don't have any thing like Dispel or Disjunction as a spell, and neither do any of the other ones that I could see (though I could have missed one).

Spell Breach does not remove True Seeing, so yeah, if you can, please check your logs for the saves and also to make sure it was really Weird that killed Kurn and not something else.

Not sure if you already did - but look at the clubs on the primal gen.  I think it's OnHit Mords.  There are two variants - one on the regulars (which I saw you mention) and one on the primals.  (...I think.  Might be GSB though.  Dunno.)

[Dorganath]

*points up* It's Lesser Spell Breach on the clubs. The Primal Earth Genasi have the same clubs as the other genasi there, only the primal ones are dual-wielding.

[Chongo]

Ah, righto.  Whoops.