Wildshape and low hit points problem

[Xaltotun]

This has happened to me twice now, the first time losing me a death token as the giants broke through and attacked me and killed me.

case 1
I was in the druid bear shape and had fallen to about 10 hit points left, when I pulled back from combat (from the party) to change back to human shape again so use potions to heal myself to return to the fight.

When I was in the clear, I cancelled the shape change but collapsed to the ground, dead. I immediately recovered to 1 hit point, but lay immobile on the ground. A giant broke through and attacked me, killing me, and I lost a death token (my first with this character).

On reflection, I presumed my hit points were too low to change from, so that is why I fell down dead, however...

case 2
I was in the bear shape again, fighting goblins, and ran from the combat with 4 hit points remaining. I returned to the camp site in the Goblin Wastelands, and Lili cast kits on me to get me to about 44 hit points, out of 220 max.

I rested, and immediately jumped to 55, then upwards to full health, but once the rest was completed, I collapsed on the ground and the character could not do anything or interact, move, anything at all. This was exactly the same thing that happened in case 1. but that time, I put it down to being dead.

I relogged, and all was okay.




I wonder then if there is a bug that makes you immobile if your hit points drop too far before you cancel the shape to recover. What is worse is that only a relog sorted the problem and that is not realistic.

Has anyone else seen this problem?
If it isn't a bug, what am I doing wrong as I now don't trust the wild shape at all.
Is there anything else I can do in the meantime? (other than trying not to get so badly damaged)

[Hellblazer]

that;s not really a bug. The same thing happens when you have a constitution spell casted on you and rest when badly wounded, or near death. The Spell fades and the temporary hit points that is awarded to you goes away, leaving you with less HP that you actually had. I imagine that this is what is happening to you. As your bear from has a higher constitution than you have, when you cancel it, the temporary hit points that were given to you are taken away, leaving you almost dead.. or worst dead.

There are time when you will get immobilized by having lost too much hit points. It's not a bug, but it's random.

[Xaltotun]

Thanks, but you've missed the point. What you said is what I thought after the first incident and I know about and agree about the temporary hit points so was aware of that.

But after the second time it happened, I spent a full 5 minutes trying to move, stand up, interact, use potions, and nothing worked. I was fully healed, no injuries, no poisons, nothing and yet my figure would not get up off the ground, and would not interact with her inventory or the other player.

That doesn't sound like a result of losing hit points to me. And random things happen randomly. Two on two makes 100%; that's not very random.

[LordCove]

Strangely, I've never had this problem.

Even if in a ShapeForm if I drop to dangerously low HP, and shifting back to my low Constitution human form "should" kill him... it doesn't.
He is instead reduced to 1HP... and I've never had him actually die from shifting back to human.

Although I'm trying to recall if I do this after a battle or during. Not sure if that even makes any difference though.

[Dorganath]

Yeah, this is essentially correct, and some bear forms have a higher CON than others, so care must always be taken before leaving a Wildshape form or resting with any sort of CON bonus in effect.

[Hellblazer]

Thanks, but you've missed the point. What you said is what I thought after the first incident and I know about and agree about the temporary hit points so was aware of that.

But after the second time it happened, I spent a full 5 minutes trying to move, stand up, interact, use potions, and nothing worked. I was fully healed, no injuries, no poisons, nothing and yet my figure would not get up off the ground, and would not interact with her inventory or the other player.

That doesn't sound like a result of losing hit points to me. And random things happen randomly. Two on two makes 100%; that's not very random.

ah well you didn't mentioned you had spent 5 minutes lol. The incapacitating usually last only a few seconds. And I'm not sure how the incapacitating works, but I'm thinking its something to do with how many HP you lose in one single event that brings you to 1. Like for ty on a deep run, She lost virtually all but 1 hp in one single attack, that left her incapacitated and me clicking like a mad man to move away of the fight so i could drink a potion. about 5 to 6 second later, there she went running away.

But I have never seen incapacitating last 5 minutes. That does sound like a bug.

[Aerimor]

LordCove.  What you described is how all forms were before like two patches ago.  If you shifted from form to your natural form with ANY hit points you would be left at one hp or higher.  You would not die.

Troubles at that time.  If in battle you shifted from your fighting form to natural form to fighting form and back again at low hit points.  The second retransformation to your natural form if at low hit points would leave you deceased.  You had to heal yourself before coming out of fighting form in low hit points two times in a row.

Current: Since like two or three patches ago some/all shifter/all shapechange forms no longer act that way.  If you are low on health and shift out, you will die in some of them if the temporary Con bonus is the only thing bringing you to positive hit points.  I reported this as a bug when the change was made.  Its been how it is since.  Best I can tell you is to carry self heals, travel in groups that will heal you OR rest while still in form. The temporary CON for me has always regenerated more hit points while I sleep than what I loose at the end of the sleep when the temp Con goes away.


Please consider the above as 'useful' playing tips for those that shapechange and an acknowledgement that there has been a change to how things work in the last year.  If you use the tips above you should be able to work around killing yourself.

~Aerimor

P.S.:  Do not drink or have cast on you Anitdote or Lesser Restoration (and I imagine restoration) while in form, it will force revert you to your natural state.

[Xaltotun]

Thanks all and it will still be helpful to find out if this is a bug I have experienced or not.
 
 Thanks Hellblazer and apologies for not explaining the time involved: I have seen your example where I was clicking to take a potion and nothing happened for about 5 or 6 seconds and then about half a dozen were swallowed one after the other.
 
 Thanks LC and Dorg for the notes and to Aerimor for bringiing me up to date with the latest changes.
 
 In the meantime, thanks for your tips and suggestions, and especially Aerimor who says that resting in form will work okay and restore your lost health (even though at the end of the rest you come out of the form, which I would say is not what should happen?). Also good tips on the Restoration/Antidotes and so on - who said the Shifter class was easy...

[Chazzler]

The Bleeding system that hails from the scripts on Layonara and on some other NWN servers is the likely cause of the incapacitating in Hellblazer's example.

A hit that would in Regular NWN put your character to 0 hit points and dead, will with these scripts put you in "Incapacitated" state, much like in PnP, you will (normally 5 seconds or so) heal 1 HP and be able to move again.

You also get a text message to your logs saying "You are incapacitated".
I've had this happen to me a few times with different characters, so it's pretty much working like it should be, right? Better off incapacitated with a slight chance of surviving than instantly dead *grins*

[Hellblazer]

hmm no chazz that's different, you are talking of the bleed to death script. I'm talking that at a random chance, if you loose too much xp at once, you can become incapacitated, even if you have a few hp left.

[Xaltotun]

A final note here on this and hopefully it explains what happens.

I was shifted into a gargoyle and became so badly damaged that I changed out of the gargoyle shape and back into my human form. I was badly damaged and Gala cast a CCW potion to restore some points. However, I was actually dead (on reading the log), even though I became healed. Lord Cove as GM couldn't interact with my character, so I relogged and was raised and all was well. The other players thought I was alive as well, so it was not just my screen.

So it seems that if you get killed while shifted, even though it looks as if you are only badly wounded, then you return to a badly wounded human form, but you are actually dead. I do not know how this helps, or what to do to play around it, particularly if, as in this case, a single spell failure brings about your death.  Here is an extract of the log to see what actually happened:

[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04] Ygraine Ursus : Will Save vs. Death : *failure* : (11 + 7 = 18 vs. DC: 24)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04]  Sabrina killed Ygraine Ursus
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04] Armor/Shield Applies: Skill Armor Check Penalty: -1 Arcane Spell Failure: 20%
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04] Armor/Shield Applies: Skill Armor Check Penalty: -11 Arcane Spell Failure: 70%
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04] Ygraine Ursus : Will Save vs. Mind Spells : *failure* : (7 + 7 = 14 vs. DC: 18 )
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04] Annwyl Cadi damages Twisted Corpse: 23 (22 Physical 1 Electrical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04] Experience Points Gained:  54
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:04] Annwyl Cadi killed Twisted Corpse
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:05] Isherwood  Smithson attacks Twisted Corpse : *hit* : (5 + 14 = 19)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:05] Galathea Arnaduillae uses Target Cure Critical Wounds
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:05] Ygraine Ursus : Healed 138 hit points.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:05] Isherwood  Smithson damages Twisted Corpse: 12 (12 Fire)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:05] Isherwood  Smithson damages Twisted Corpse: 10 (9 Physical 1 Electrical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:06] Off Hand : Keppli Quickhands attacks Twisted Corpse : *hit* : (7 + 25 = 32)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:06] Off Hand : Keppli Quickhands attacks Twisted Corpse : *hit* : (16 + 20 = 36)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:06] Keppli Quickhands damages Twisted Corpse: 3 (2 Physical 1 Electrical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:07] Keppli Quickhands damages Twisted Corpse: 5 (4 Physical 1 Electrical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:07] Twisted Corpse attacks Keppli Quickhands : *miss* : (11 + 10 = 21)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:08] Isherwood  Smithson attacks Twisted Corpse : *hit* : (16 + 19 = 35)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:08] Isherwood  Smithson damages Twisted Corpse: 9 (9 Fire)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:08] Isherwood  Smithson damages Twisted Corpse: 17 (15 Physical 2 Electrical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:08] Experience Points Gained:  54
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:08] Isherwood  Smithson killed Twisted Corpse
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:12]  Sabrina attacks Isherwood  Smithson : *hit* : (15 + 24 = 39)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:13]  Sabrina damages Isherwood  Smithson: 23 (23 Physical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:14]  Sabrina attacks Isherwood  Smithson : *hit* : (8 + 19 = 27)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:14]  Sabrina damages Isherwood  Smithson: 15 (15 Physical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:15] Galathea Arnaduillae uses Target Cure Critical Wounds
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:15] Ygraine Ursus : Healed 58 hit points.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:16]  Sabrina attacks Isherwood  Smithson : *miss* : (12 + 14 = 26)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:16] Keppli Quickhands: [Party] Ygraine! *howls*
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:18]  Sabrina attacks Isherwood  Smithson : *hit* : (17 + 24 = 41)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:18]  Sabrina damages Isherwood  Smithson: 11 (11 Physical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:19] Isherwood  Smithson uses Target Cure Moderate Wounds
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:22] Serissa1 has left as a player..
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:23] Galathea Arnaduillae uses Target Cure Critical Wounds
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:25] Isherwood  Smithson uses Target Cure Moderate Wounds
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:26] Keppli Quickhands: [Party] you okay? *girts teeth*
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:27]  Sabrina attacks Xanya Enyafailm : *hit* : (17 + 24 = 41)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:27]  Sabrina damages Xanya Enyafailm: 24 (24 Physical)
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:31] Isherwood  Smithson uses Target Cure Moderate Wounds
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon Feb 08 20:31:31] Galathea Arnaduillae: [Tell] did you die?

//I kept the last few lines as even Gala thought Ygraine was still alive.