A post to the community regarding DM encounters

[Tanman]

Hello all,

Please note that this post is the opinion of me alone and does not represent what others on the team. This post is just to clarify something that I have noted while I have been on as GM especially when I have been providing custom encounters to the party. I would like to state that to me being a DM means providing an entertainment for players. This is either by quests or providing dynamic encounters through challenge.

I don’t have an issue of people requesting a Soul Strand. Nor do I have a problem with people thinking that "perhaps this encounter has unfair". That is in your player’s right to make a request or to have thoughts like that. What I have a problem with is when players have the mindset that because they have faced a losing situation or your character has died that the DM is out to punish them. I hear things like "What did we do wrong?" "Oh we must have got someone out there angry".

For me I would normally never use spawns or even overpowered spawns to police a situation or because I am angry at the players. Instead you are going to receive a tell saying that we need to have a little chat. Getting a GMs attention for 20 minutes filled with creatures encounters and mayhem or more at a time is a privilege  and not a punishment.

It is sad to see that the playerbase view the DMs in this way. I want to say that as far as I am concerned, getting a custom (harder) encounter from me is because I want to spice up an experience or because I feel happy of what is happening in regard to RP. You will also find that the encounter will be suited in for your tastes. If you are at the inn, during a player event, you aren't going to see monsters instead perhaps you are going to talk to the bartender or the waitresses or whoever...to make the experience better.

That is also why after each encounter where you are safe I will spawn in just to let you know that I hope everyone had fun *regardless* of the outcome and that is because I did it for your enjoyment. There are however times when we as DMs spawn things to keep things in the Lore of the World. But in those circumstances I will notify you about that too.
 
Much Respect,
  Tanman

[Varka]

I see it as a privilege when a DM involves himself/herself. Pyro did that today for me. And I loved it. Even though Varka survived

I loved especially The REALLY Angry Troll...hehe

[Skywatcher]

In the experiences I have had with GMs lately they have been exactly as you said.  A privledge and I appreciate that you have been very active in this regard.  Keep up  the good work Tanman and thanks.

[Kolskeggr]

I have encountered a couple of your spawn's and I will say that it definitely enhanced the experience.  You were actually the first GM I had the fortune to encounter in my Layonara experience.  You gave very good advice and helped me to do better role play.

I applaud you and all the other GM's for the time and effort you guys put into this game.  I understand that it is voluntary, and that makes it even more special.

Thanks,

Kolskeggr

[Interia_Discordius]

Part of adventuring is risking your life. You always let us request soul strand returns, so truly, what is there to lose? The tougher battles make strategy and working together very important, and in all honesty, it's better than the repetitive go in and bash bash and continue on. You spice things up, and even if some players don't like, then they're only missing out on the fun themselves.

Tanman, you know I've always enjoyed your spawns.

[LynnJuniper]

Expect the Unexpected People. That's the true message here.
   
  Truly, it’s a sad cycle. First people complain about the ‘stock’ quality of the world outside GM quests; saying that the same old encounters all the time would not be what would ‘really’ happen. And then the GMs throw something onto the players, hoping to make the experience a little more rich and a little less ‘stock’. And then what? People get wigged out because the strategies they’ve  memorized, the spawns they’ve memorized have suddenly changed, and then the complaining.
   
  This can’t happen guys, you can’t have both. It discourages the GMs to see complaints like that, and then they stop running stuff spontansiously, and then those who have not complained and even some who have start to speak out about the lack of spontaneous quests and the fact that ‘nothing changes’.
   
  GM encounters are , often, a privilege and are done to ripen the experience, even if sometimes it doesn’t seem that way.
   
  GMs: I’m not saying any of you do this, but please don’t use spawns to punish players who may be camping CNR or areas if you don’t think they notice they’re doing so. If it’s a usual offence, or something of that nature, hey, but if not don’t do this. It just encourages the same complaints that discourage the Gms.
   
  [FONT="]That’s all I have to say.[/FONT]

[Dezza]

From another gm's perspective for the most part any impromptus we decide to run are for the greater enjoyment of the community. If not we would not do it. As a general rule of thumb however I strongly advise people in these situations never assume creatures are stupid.

For the most part as players we get used to the spawn locations, we get used to where we can move safely or how to get to some piece of cnr without being harrassed and we can often be caught unprepared when suddenly things change.

In my experience a certain % of people in that situation are put out because they were caught 'unprepared'. IN that case its not our fault you 'assumed' that the ogre camp did not have sentries out, you assumed the treants cant sneak up on you while you sleep, you assume the elven bandits just walk through the forest whistling and talking at the top of their voices or that the giants are supremely and ultimately dumb and cannot organise a strategic resistance to repeated invasion of their home... I think I am painting a suitable picture here.

In saying that remember as gm's we may take the side of the monster and give it some 'outside AI' intelligence and well even the lowly kobold can be a nasty piece of work when a strong leader meshes them into an organised force.

Monsters will only take so much invasion and slaughtering of their kind. Its time for the monsters of layo to rise up and challenge those who would prey upon them. Its time for..... er...sorry got carried away there. Anyway you know what I am getting at.

Oh and btw did you realise that gm's are human? Yes its sad but true and unfortunately we can make mistakes sometimes. But..sometimes people deserve it if monsters to do their best to take them out!

Be wary! and most importantly be safe and enjoy the wide and sometimes 'varied' challenges that the world can throw at you!

[hawklen]

Me too! I've always enjoyed them, and survived them! Keep up the good work tanman!

[Faldred]

I've never had anything but fun on the rare (mostly because of my limited playing time) occasions I've had a DM randomly get involved.  Things can get deadly, but increased risk makes it more fun.

[Varka]

*to Rhynn*: "People get wigged out because the strategies they ve memorized
When you have 500 hp,,,that is your  strategy! hehe

*to Dezza* "Monsters will only take so much invasion and slaughtering of their kind. Its time for the monsters of layo to rise up and challenge those who would prey upon them"

Anytime any place  mate

[Guardian 452]

Way back when I DM'ed I rather enjoyed adding some spice to groups in Haven Mines, or other areas but Haven was my favorite to spice up. I never set out with the mindset of killing players. But if they did dumb things sometimes they did die. What used to bother me was the milisecond a group would see something that was different they would leave (can you say meta-gaming?). That always made me sad that a group didn't want to have some fun. But I guess that's just a difference in one player to another. Sone people would sing my praises after I added some spice to their mining or EXP trip. Other groups would literally leave the area and log out..... SAD.

[twidget658]

Endless hordes of skeletons coming at you *smiles at the Witch Doctor*...you can literally see your character's arms getting tired and the sweat on their foreheads. Spells only last for so long so you have to consider to retreat, back up to another choke point or bridge. Your character's heads are on a swivel looking for an escape or an advantage. Great fun!
 
 Tanman, I really like how you show up and talk to the party. It allows the players to get to know you better and debrief, if needed.
 
 Also, if things don't go very well, the GM that never shows up leaves the impression/perception that they are hiding and wish to remain anonymous. By showing up, you can tell the party what would have worked better and also to make sure there are no hard feelings or false perceptions.
 
 Keep up the fun interactions and the great example you set for the other GM's.

[lonnarin]

I certainly didn't feel the 1st part of the encounters you spawned in that last case were out of line... those driders were fun fighting when we came across them in pre-existing groups in our path.  However one must be careful to give players options, and having unlimited foes which one can neither spot or hear until they are on top of your head, from which there seems no discernable source to stop is a bit much.  At least if they're pouring from the mouth of a cave you can try collapsing the cave, or if they're being summoned you can kill the summoner.  Infinite monsters isn't infinitely fun, unless you have somewhere to run.  

Please, when spawning encounters, don't do so *on top* of players... allow them to charge from a direction so that a battle-line can be drawn.  This is especially the case when the party is already out of all their spells and abilities, the battle already looks lost, *there's nowhere to run* and the monsters just keep flowing.  Also keep the psychology of the spawns created in mind... would swarms and swarms of 12+ int driders and drow really lay down their 600-year-long lives and die by the hundreds in endless warfare against 7 people already retreating, or would they try laying traps and ambush, parlay, subtly sabotage their efforts or possibly cut their losses and pull back?

When spawning massive amounts of monsters, also please take note of the party and its status.  When one or two people die, maybe let up a little and spawn a little less than what you did before.  Simply keeping them flowing at the same rate after their main tank, cleric and frontline dies is about as challenging to a party as being a rat stuck in a bottle steadily filling with water.  When there's no where to run, hide, draw battle-lines or somehow prepare for a better outcome in such cases, the feeling in the player's minds of a GM-created execution is somewhat justified.  

I know that you were just trying to spice up the place to make it more fun, but it's not like the Rift is very unspicy to begin with... we already had a few characters die multiple times.  When those unlimited driders started spawning, from their perspective they felt like somebody was just trying to drown them.  Perhaps it is better to add to mundane encounters where the funfactor is lacking... like when everybody's sitting in town bored saying "I don't know, what do YOU want to do?" back and forth, or when the party barely even bleeds at all for hours on end of hacknslash.

I think the main reason the party was so ticked in this case is that for some of them, this has happened before.  The Rift and GM spawns are almost synonymous for some reason... diamonds seem to sparkle and draw the GMs like moth to a flame.  Heck, at one point there was even a multiple player blowup & walk-out because of GM spawns in the Rift; it's a *very* touchy subject for some people.  Consider that high-risk CNR trips are very important to some people already trying to battle sheer chance to win finished product... even if they win the encounter, they often lose in the crafthall.  

Also, getting involved in CNR gathering automatically raises suspicions that the GM somehow had an invested economic interest in preventing the crafting from happening, like what if a GM spawned extra drow on everybody but his character's own guild members for example?  Hypothetical example: If Harlas the GM increased the difficulty of getting Mithral and everybody failed, wouldn't somebody on that trip think at least in the back of their minds that he did it so Kobal the dwarf could remain the only successful mithral blacksmith?   I certainly don't think this was the case for you, but when you mix GM spawns with CNR gathering, then the connection is almost always considered.  ( I think it's called transferrance, when the characters' greed is assumed by the players to be in the eyes of the GM)  That's why I always stayed out of CNR areas when I was GMing, it's just not worth the inevitable false accusations and bitterness that come out of it.

I'm not at all angry at you or what happened, and I totally understand that all you were trying to do is make things better, and more enjoyable for all of us.  I even feel a bit sorry that many in the party chewed you out over this afterwards.  I would ask in the future that people try to be a bit more understanding to our GM team and not buy into this "us vs. them" mentality.  I would also ask something of the GMs as well... if somebody's mining something, please don't thwart them with anything that can be seen as an automatic "You-Lose" card... especially in already high risk areas that have already claimed life that night.  When people are bored, mucking around, just hacknslashing with no real goals in mind... THAT's the perfect time to introduce new goals and spawns.  

Maybe if they're mining something, rather than making their work tougher... make it different.  For example, one time in Firesteep a GM had a bit of story-intrigue happening when he had us encounter two non-hostile dwarves; one a Voraxian Defender, the other an Adamantine Brotherhood Duergar monk.  He had them each ask us about the other, that they were looking for one another.  When we got out, we found the dead body of the Voraxian.  This was a great example... nobody could really get mad at a GM if they died on that trip because he didn't add monsters and spawns to the event.  However, he did undeniably add to the funfactor of it by giving us something to worry about while we were there.

I certainly hope this fiasco doesn't stop you or other GMs from trying to interact with the players spontaneously, or those involved to stop trying to explore the Rift or any other areas like it.  Rest assured that the GMs are not out to grief us, but to make our experience more enjoyable, and even they can slip up sometimes.

[Tanman]

@lonnarin
I think that there are many points that you raise that I will certainly take heed of  for future events.