Author Topic: A Reminder About Level Progression (Read 112 times)

orth · « **on:** August 17, 2006, 08:52:33 am »

If your character has been approved for a multi class, it is not acceptable to build levels such as this for example:

1 Fighter
15 Cleric
4 Fighter

These sort of builds are designed specifically to gain access to feats and are not in the spirit of our desire to dissuade powerbuilds. Yes we're all aware you can make stories to fit any level progression but these sort of builds are designed for the sole purpose of gaining build/feat/skill advantages. An approved fighter/cleric should progress somewhat like this:

1 Fighter
4 Cleric
1 Fighter
4 Cleric
1 Fighter
4 Cleric
1 Fighter
3 Cleric
1 Fighter

Please, please, please try to remember our world is about roleplay, and keeping an even field for everyone. It is not fair to players who progress in levels in the spirit of the rules set in place when others are not.

Thank you.

Faldred · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2006, 09:26:01 am »

Just curious... let's say (as a hypothetical [or not] example), that a certain Drow charatcer was approved for Rogue 7 / Wizard 13. Would the following (or something similar) be acceptable?

Rogue 5
Wizard 4
Rogue 1
Wizard 4
Rogue 1
Wizard 5

Or would this be preferable in this case:

Rogue 7
Wizard 13

Dorganath · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2006, 09:48:50 am »

The exact numbers are not as important. The request is that you keep them as close to each other as possible through your progression, or at least have a progression that makes sense. Having 1 level in a class when your other class(es) have significantly more is not preferred.
When your character takes his/her levels can be as much of an RP-thing as any, but taking, for example, one fighter level to get all the neat feats they start with, then 8 of your "main" class and then some of a third class while still at one level of fighter is really not RP-ish. It's an OOC power-building thing.
Remember also that we require a minimum of 5 levels in each class before reaching level 20.

Ar7 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2006, 09:58:49 am »

Quote

Dorganath - 8/17/2006 9:48 AM

Having 1 level in a class when your other class(es) have significantly more is not preferred.

Not preffered? Wasn't it rather forbidden and resulted in either character deletion in the extreme case or usually delevelling? I mean not preffered means that it is basically allowed, no?

Maybe I am just picking on words, but I want to be sure.

Faldred · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2006, 10:16:07 am »

Quote

Dorganath - 8/17/2006 12:48 PM The exact numbers are not as important. The request is that you keep them as close to each other as possible through your progression, or at least have a progression that makes sense. Having 1 level in a class when your other class(es) have significantly more is not preferred.
When your character takes his/her levels can be as much of an RP-thing as any, but taking, for example, one fighter level to get all the neat feats they start with, then 8 of your "main" class and then some of a third class while still at one level of fighter is really not RP-ish. It's an OOC power-building thing.
Remember also that we require a minimum of 5 levels in each class before reaching level 20.

Okay, that makes it clearer for me. The "hypothetical" was, of course, my own Aeoleth Ellyn character. My plan was always to take him to level 5 Rogue and then start multi-classing the Wizard levels, because of his backsotry (trained as a scout/assassin, but with a deep interest in lore and magic -- after being out in the "surface world" and away from his house, he would seek out the magical learning denied him previously, but he wouldn't be able to do it immediately because these things take time to study). I just wanted to make sure I wasn;t violating a server rule/guideline in the process.

Dorganath · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2006, 10:26:31 am »

Well alright, that was me trying to be less dramatic.

Prior to Level 20, one must follow the progression of things we have specified. Without going into too much micromanagement of when and how people level, but we do want you to keep things as close together as possible while staying within your plan for the character. As for deletion for not following our requests, I'm not aware of that ever happening, but in the case hypothetical case orth mentioned above, that character would probably be de-leveled until it reached a point where it could fall in line with our rules....and likely without recompensation for the lost XP.
After Level 20, the progression is more open...though if someone gets approved for an additional class at level 20, and then ends up with a 29/1 character at level 30, that's not good either, unless they continue to add levels in that second class.
There's no "right" way to level, but taking one level in Fighter, for example, and then taking 15-16 levels in 1-2 other classes without taking any other fighter levels is against the spirit of the server...take any more, and the character cannot meet our mimimum requirements by level 20.

Tazmanius · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2006, 01:41:45 pm »

Interesting thread...

I have a L12 fighter...that is now gaining some levels in rogue...wasn't originally planned for this to happen..just the way the rp..and the rediscovery of his past learned skills and such has happened.
With this in mind..there should be some leeway for people to either develop their PC's as per their backstory,rp development and such..where a bit of leeway in the way levels are obtained is allowed...as long as they meet the minimums required for L20...and a certain amount of justification and development is detailed in the original submission,through the CDT and ultimately rp and interaction.

One area of concern though..would be a character,as has been pointed out,taking 1 level in a specific class..then immediately switching and ignoring the original class...whilst developing 1 or 2 other classes.
If we want to go into the semantics of it all..could say..a barbarian..who has switched to another class..say a more civilised fighter..or such..really return to their barbaric ways?Would this not be a case for a certain restriction inasmuch as...any barbarian class(Unless someone is doing a "Dances with Wolves")..should perhaps have to be fully or almost fully developed..to meet the requirements before a switch?

darkstorme · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:01:04 pm »

Quote

If we want to go into the semantics of it all..could say..a barbarian..who has switched to another class..say a more civilised fighter..or such..really return to their barbaric ways?Would this not be a case for a certain restriction inasmuch as...any barbarian class(Unless someone is doing a "Dances with Wolves")..should perhaps have to be fully or almost fully developed..to meet the requirements before a switch?

The problem with this is that it would lend itself to abuses. The restriction would have to be that at least 5 levels would have to be acheived in the first class if you weren't intending ever to go back to it. People may decry this, claiming RP - but people always decry things based on RP or "real life". I think there are exceptions to the "balanced" structure, but they'd have to be very well defined in RP (and still obey the 5-level rule).

Dorganath · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:01:42 pm »

Quote

Tazmanius - 8/17/2006 3:41 PM One area of concern though..would be a character,as has been pointed out,taking 1 level in a specific class..then immediately switching and ignoring the original class...whilst developing 1 or 2 other classes. If we want to go into the semantics of it all..could say..a barbarian..who has switched to another class..say a more civilised fighter..or such..really return to their barbaric ways?Would this not be a case for a certain restriction inasmuch as...any barbarian class(Unless someone is doing a "Dances with Wolves")..should perhaps have to be fully or almost fully developed..to meet the requirements before a switch?

If the character were going to move away from the barbarian past, one would either have to get a full rebuild/relevel (only in extraordinary RP circumstances) or make sure all 5 Barbarian levels were taken and simply not rely on Barbarian feats and abilities. However also bear in mind that the further one goes away from those 1 or 2 levels he/she no longer desires, the less likely a rebuild will be. Yes, that means the character would be stuck with aspects that were perhaps unwanted or whatever, but that's the consideration one must make.

Tazmanius · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:23:39 pm »

Surely though..if people are allowed to get away with taking less levels in a class than the minimum requirements..they are playing the system.They should be made to meet the minimum requirements as stated..prior to reaching L20.

Using the barbarian quoted before as an example..if a person only takes one level..and knowinly does so..to gain the extra hp etc at first level..then abandons it...aren't they just milking the system for the higher survivability at low level ..and,in effect,gaining unfair advantage?

Are there any hard rules in place to prevent abuse?Are any planned?..Will characters who fail to meet the 5 level minimums in a chosen class be prevented from advancing beyond L20?

Dorganath · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:32:28 pm »

Yes, it is a clear way to milk the system/powerbuild/etc. and as has been said before, against the spirit of this server.
As for rules....there is already a rule that requires 5 levels in each class prior to level 20. If that is not met, then we will intervene. Generalyl, we can catch it before level 20 and delevel the offending character until the proper adjustment can be made. I am not aware of any exceptions to this rule having been made ever...and honestly, it's not something we've really had to remind people of either.

Leanthar · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2006, 02:33:25 pm »

"....Using the barbarian quoted before as an example..if a person only takes one level..and knowinly does so..to gain the extra hp etc at first level..then abandons it...aren't they just milking the system for the higher survivability at low level ..and,in effect,gaining unfair advantage?...."

Yes, they are, and yes they are...so yes to both questions.

"...Are there any hard rules in place to prevent abuse?Are any planned?..Will characters who fail to meet the 5 level minimums in a chosen class be prevented from advancing beyond L20?...."

Hard rules? no. We expect players to have the decency to not cheat the system and to understand and respect the spirit of the server. As well as hope the community helps us with this goal. Are any planned? Surely we don't have to babysit the community in this fashion....at least I would hope. We are here to provide a game world and to give out quests and help where we can. There has to be some things that players are responsible for and I think being responsible for ones own actions ia a darn good place to start.

Falonthas · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:20:35 pm »

so the person who might have done this not realizing should come forward and request to have the char fixed to conform in the true spirit of things as good for the whole?

IceDragonDuvessa · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:22:11 pm »

Im not sure this is directed at anyone person, more a broad statement and reminder of the rules.

jrizz · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2006, 03:46:55 pm »

Well let me be the first to step up and ask if I have acted aginst the spirit of the server in the building of my new character (wren). I started as a pure Barbarian and at level 10 asked to change to Fighter (the RP reasons are sound). The plan is to not gain anymore levels in Barbarian and progress as a fighter till 20th level. The outcome should be a 10/10 Barb/Fighter.

Frelinder · « **Reply #15 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:04:15 pm »

irizz I'm no GM but can say for sure that thats not acting against the server spirit. If you had take 1 lvls barbarian 10 lvls fighter and then 9 barbarian it would have been a little bit more questionable.

By the way i think that Barbarian is one of the classes that you should always start with if you wan't to have barbarian lvls. Thats because barbarian its not an class that you train to become.. its more of a class that you are.. you are born barbarian. With the Rage and all that.. hehe. Fighter lvls, rogue or other are more classes that you can training in...

So you are an barbarian but at lvl 10 you wan't to train more in the arts of a fighter and become more elegant and suficiant in your way of fighting instead of just charge in in barbarian rage like a mad man... So i would say your choise is verry good rp wise but it would have been lesser good... not against the rulez.. but not as good if you would have taken the fighter classes first..

This is my opionion and not server rulez..

Dorganath · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:19:26 pm »

@jrizz -- That's perfectly fine.

Ne'er · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:31:51 pm »

Quote

Frelinder - 8/17/2006 7:04 PM

By the way i think that Barbarian is one of the classes that you should always start with if you wan't to have barbarian lvls. Thats because barbarian its not an class that you train to become.. its more of a class that you are.. you are born barbarian. With the Rage and all that.. hehe. Fighter lvls, rogue or other are more classes that you can training in...

I would agree for the most part, however I know of at least one situation where it made sense for the fighter to become a sort of barbarian as time went on. But it is definately something that would have to be well RP'd, and it wouldn't be easy to do that in normal cirumstances.

Leanthar · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:36:28 pm »

I do not want us to get in to nit-picking the classes and prc's and when they could/should be choosen. We already have strict rules for prc's in place and it causes a LOT of extra work for the team and some frustration for the community. We don't need more than we have. We need the players helping us to do our job, the community as a whole.

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2006, 04:39:04 pm »

Rules are rules, classes are classes. If it seems even slightly wrong, ask a GM. If you know it's wrong, don't do it. Simple as that.