Author Topic: Bad RP? Or just doens't understand? (Read 189 times)

Millan · « **on:** August 07, 2006, 12:54:14 am »

I just had an RP scene with a PC and they were using emotes to put down my PC IC. I found this to be extremly bad RP and simply horrid for game play. The PC said,

*takes out his blades and sharpens them while stairing at Daralith and his pet monkey*

And when i walked away he then emoted

*watches the pet monkey walk away*

I found this to be insulting and borderline griefing in the fact that he was insulting my PC OOC by using emotes that ICly my PC could not possibly read into what his PC was thinking. I at first didn't send any tells to the PC, but apparently everyone around me did and they also sent tells to me saying the guy was "griefing my pc" and "rping badly". I just walked away. The PC then sent me a tell saying to have my friends back off and I told him I didn't have friends "attacking" him. I then tried to talk to him to see if he understood why the using such things in OOC is hard on RP but he didn't want to hear it.

So what do you think? I personally think it is HORRID RP to use emotes like that. You don't say things in emotes that others could not read into on your pc. You should never say "walks away from the idiot* in an emote. It is abusing the chat function and emotes.

IceDragonDuvessa · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2006, 01:02:13 am »

This is bad form because there is no way you could possibly respond without metagaming. Staring at your PC and sharpening his blade is one thing but calling you names in an emote is not right and hiding behind both the PvP rules here and the fact that most people here will not metagame on things like that.

Best advice I can offer is to do just what you did and walk away... and if it gets to be a problem repeatedly talk to the dms, thats what we're here for.

Drizzlin · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2006, 01:04:43 am »

I was there and witnessed this. It was a poor thing to say things like that in an emote. I am not sure if the person understands that or simply didn’t care. I didn’t want to say anything OOC, nor did I. I didn’t want to put myself in the position to be the one in trouble *grins*. Either way, Bakee tried talking to the guy by responding to his tells. Perhaps someone who knows the guy can talk to him and hopefully it was a mistake and misunderstanding on how to use emotes such as *walks away quietly* or *Glares Coldly at the Fighter*.

I think the entire scene needs a little looking into and learning from to be honest. Threatening PCs and saying you are going to slit their throats, on a non pvp server is kind of pushing boundaries. We have to keep in mind this is a non PvP server and refrain from saying things like that IC. My advice is never say anything to a PC that can not be resolved in means other than PvP. You should never tell a PC, “I am going to kill you outside” because under Layonara rules that can never be done/resolved. It is ok to insult PCs, but do it in a manner of RP and with OOC respect for the rules of Layonara.

Layonara is the best and handles issues like this well. I hope it is worked out.

LoganGrimnar · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2006, 01:38:07 am »

Hmm, beat me to it, i was going to post this as well. Its bad RP to do such things. Your not insualting the Char when you do that, becouse the char cant see the text, your insualting the player. I dont think the player doing this understands is all.

Acacea · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2006, 01:53:18 am »

Conflict in a way that insults in the context of emotes is different from conflict, period. It's silly to phrase emotes--which are unspoken and devoid of opinion, merely a player narrating the actions of a character--in such a way as to insult anyone, as it is clearly not the character doing so.

Threatening violence while hiding behind PvP rules (not having to back it up and trusting that they can't harm you) is not cool, no, and happens entirely too often. I'm not sure if this was the case here since the insulting was done via emote, and as mentioned it's sort of difficult to respond to one, but it does happen, and is always very frustrating.

To repond to Drizzlin, though, it doesn't mean that threats, insults, and violence can't be RPed properly and without breaking any rules. Saying, "this can never happen or be resolved" on Layo is very restrictive and implies that the Layo world is a huggy sugary one in which nothing bad ever happens to anyone without a GM hovering around them at all times.

You just have to be aware of the rules and think before you say anything, which shouldn't be an uncommon thing. "Is this going to put either of us in a situation where there will need to be any sort of combat, and is it worth the trouble of either dicebag fighting or going to Velensk for it?" and if so, see if the other player feels the same way. It takes all of 30 seconds to know if you should find another IC answer to something, or if both parties are up to threats being backed up. Sometimes (often) it's not worth the extra effort and the best option is just finding a different IC response.

Yes, it does require some decency in terms of player interaction, and good roleplay, and if people were like that all the time, we wouldn't have posts like this--but I wouldn't say it's impossible. At least, I hope it's not.

Vyris · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2006, 02:08:08 am »

Daren and Bedin have been hating each other for almost a year, I think actually coming to blows at this point in time would be kindof a letdown for both os us. Strife is good RP, especially between two players who understand the context in which they are playing.

Vyris

Acacea · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2006, 02:20:20 am »

Hehe, I adore strife.

Tazmanius · « **Reply #7 on:** August 07, 2006, 04:23:46 am »

Right..Had enough of this..

Point one..had reason to talk to Ice previously about a member of a certain group that in their various character incarnations..was griefing me..

This has continued off and on for a while...and then today..as soon as I log in.I start getting insulted and threatened by Daralith and some half giant...

Now..

1/If they want to talk about bad rp..seen many examples of people saying such things as I did...then again at least it's not some stupid and out of place Americanization..like can be oft seen such as cool or dude.This is a Fantasy world..not west coast surf heaven.

2/Talking of bad rp..How did the person know my characters name..I never told him and had never met the person before..but no..as soon as they see me..Daralith and the one I should have called his pet monkey rather than state it the way I did..an honest mistake on my part..launched into me.

3/As regards to people hiding behind PvP..well..let's see..Jareg..Nepp..Tash'r..Darkchild and now these two..all threatening and trying to bully people.When I log on to a game..I do so to enjoy it..not just end up in arguments with people who constantly grief and play all their characters the same.

4/At the time of this incident...I tried to contact a GM..as I have had enough of this incessant griefplay by certain people..one incident does not make griefplay...but the constant hammering away at one does..and to be honest..I was going to keep it all private..but..you guys have forced my hand...

Oh and as an aside to this..No I was not the one hiding behind PvP they were..there are certain elements here who seem to think they are more important than the game and they try to bully and threaten..knowing full well..that one cannot reasonably respond....also after a long period of getting griefed..you just get fed up of it..even when having private conversations with other characters some of these immature types but in and try to dirupt the rp also..
Eventually it gets to a stage..where one finds it hard to concentrate on pure rp..as you just wait for the next insult..or snide comment..and it really rankles when it comes from people who would have no way of knowing who you were.

No doubt had I called the op a pet monkey to his face he would also have seen that as an ooc insult..then again..it was an apt if improperly slotted in tag for one who just did whatever Daralin said.

Dorganath · « **Reply #8 on:** August 07, 2006, 06:30:59 am »

Before this starts to get too ridiculous (and in some ways it already has), let's be clear about a couple of things:
1) If you feel you are being griefed by another player, do NOT grief in return. Remove yourself from the situation and/or contact a GM. Keep chat logs...take screen shots....have a GM witness the incident. Griefing can and will be dealt with, but you have got to let us know, and you have got to have proof.
2) Insulting someone through emotes is surely bad form and cannot lead to any good outcomes. This is along the lines of forced emotes like *punches him in the face, breaking his nose*. There's just no way to respond, or counter in an IC manner to things like that. I honestly don't care what leads up to such an incident, this is just not good RP. Period. Either insult them IC or walk away.
These comments are not directed at anyone in particular, but rather a general warning. This thread is about to degrade into a he said/she said slap-fight, and if that happens, it's getting locked. If there is some kind of OOC interpersonal conflict between players, bring it to the GM team.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #9 on:** August 07, 2006, 07:17:00 am »

My only real advice for all the players involved (but ESPECIALLY Tazmanius) is to take a few steps back from this, and ask yourself what you're doing, and why.

In the past, I've had issues with other players, and even DMs, for the most ridiculous and pointless of reasons. I got fed up with half-imagined slights, and wrecked the playing experience for myself, and probably a few others for a time. Sadly, it took repeated warnings to get it through my head that the problem was with me, not anyone else. I took a few days to think, and came back better for it. What did I think about?

Well, the premise is simple: This is a game, and YOU decide how much fun you have. If other people want to try causing problems for you, they can try all day, but it's you who decides whether they succeed. (This idea works just as well whether or not others are actually trying to make your life difficult.) If it gets to the point of legitimate griefing, bring the DMs in on it. If you're in the right, you're in the right, and the situation will be handled. That's WHY we have the DM team: to make this world a great place to play. They do a good job of that.

So, in short, the thing to think about is this: Are they really causing enough of a problem for you that they're forcing you to not enjoy the game? Is it really worth it to take things any further, or even just not ignore what happens?

Talk with people in Tells more often. I usually don't say this, but in terms of keeping players okay with each other, MORE OOC is better. If there's an IC conflict between my character and another these days, I almost always send along a Tell regarding how good the RP was (even if, honestly, the RP was mediocre at best). It keeps people happy, and keeps a nice, wide degree of separation between IC conflicts and OOC conflicts.

Harlas Ravelkione · « **Reply #10 on:** August 07, 2006, 07:41:52 am »

Dorganath already explained it in detail, but to emphasize his points:

- If you are continously receiving unwanted/abusive tells, take the screenshot and send it to a member of the GM team.

- If you are being griefed, take the screenshot and send it to a member of the GM team.

The rules were put in place for good reasons and using tells does not cancel nor navigate around those rules.

Harlas

Philosopher · « **Reply #11 on:** August 07, 2006, 08:54:15 am »

Just want to pop in a slot in here:

Taz, I understand how you feel and I've experienced it. But in truth, I have told a DM, got screenshots etc...but now if it gets really bad, and I mean metagaming emotes, I just walk away, and made it easier for me.

In truth...I give all players a chance to RP, even those who insulted me OOC with metagaming emotes, and if it gets bad or I get annoyed due to it being to OOC I just walk away. I know it maybe a very bad way but it's a way I handle it.

If anyone has better suggestions I'm all eyes for reading.

Edd.

cbnicholson · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2006, 09:30:20 am »

I don't know if I have any credibility left with you, Tazmanius, but please hear what these players/gm's are telling you. Sometimes you need a thick skin- Hell I play dumb pretty good

, other times, reporting it is the best way. Its not you vs the whole of Layo- just thought you should know that. Chuck N.

Harlas Ravelkione · « **Reply #13 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:13:58 am »

The remark about credibility was uncalled for cbnicholson. There is not evidence of who has credibility in this matter and who has not. Remarks such as the one you just used are only inciting further flames in this thread - so keep them out of the forums.

hawklen · « **Reply #14 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:33:17 am »

Chuck Norris plays layo?!? omg!!!

Anyways, two cents, I only react, never provoked first. *shrugs*

Diablo_68 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:46:31 am »

Surely if somebody says something in an emote and you can't respond then the matter ends, just ignore it. The only way they can proceed to grief you is respond to their own emote and in that case take a screen shot.

*watches the pet monkey walk away* Seems childish but not a problem, it is his view and you know your character better then anyone else, think of it as his view of your character and you can think about why he might think it.

There are plenty of people to RP with on this server so just find some other people.

ohboy007 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:49:21 am »

*coughs* Just have to say a few words. Hideing behind PvP rules on anyside is bad. Jareg did confront Jaleel about his bad mouthing of Kiva and his members outloud in public without trying to conceal his words (ie a whisper). Now im not saying one should not be able to talk bad about poeple in public (IC of course) but one should also not hide behind PvP rules when you insult them and know they cant do anything about it besides walk away (which is what Jareg did, even typed *walks away*) So please dont be includeing that character in your grief as he did not threaten to kill you and walked away, and had no problem with that character till he was insulted. Im just saying that the character Jaleel has been in trouble with a few characters i have heard on the account of his out spoken opions which are usualy done in the most public of settings, not saying that is bad...but be minfull people dont generaly take that on the cheek and just put up with it. They should be able to do everything in their power to rp their character in a way they believe they should act without breaking any rules. To tell you the truth though I thought it could have been a cool rp rivalery but I believe that at this point (unless a change of heart), we will stay away from Jaleels character as it is simply no fun to rp with someone who feels they are being greifed, supposed to be fun and no bitter anger involved and i appologize if that is the way you feel. ohboy007

cbnicholson · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2006, 11:54:43 am »

@Harlas

understood. I didn't mean to bend/break any rules.

yeah Chuck Norris plays on this server, but he doesn't have to log in.

hawklen · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2006, 12:04:53 pm »

If chuck norris played, blood would of been dead a long time ago *nods a few times*

Tazmanius · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2006, 02:06:39 pm »

With regard to Jareg's situation..

1/He got involved with what was a private converstaion..and with the murmur of the town..I doubt he could have actually heard anything Jaleel said about Kiva.

2/What he did hear..under the above circumstances..was no insult..*Kiva and others of his ilk* would imply that the fault lies with Jareg's perception of Kiva and not Jaleel's..i.e if Jareg thought what was said was an insult..then the implied insult must also be in line with the way Jareg sees Kiva..otherwise such a harmless statement could not be construed as an insult.

But,as stated, over a long period..certain people within a certain group have constantly sniped and threatened ic..hiding behind the PvP situation...Some of them openly threaten to kill..with no ooc tells..or such to see if it's ok...Rhynn had an issue with Jaleel..who..I'll agree is outspoken..but Rhynn cleared it through a tell first...others have not and just try to impose their style of rp on others..
example..One character..makes many comments..runs with the same crowd as their main(strange eh)..and aside from once attacking someone in game without permission..also has tried to intimidate etc in situations using their spells..buff/transform into giant bug ..threaten etc..this is threatening PvP...but hiding behind magic and such...well..it's poor...

example two..last night..while having a chat in Hlint..Nepp/Kiva/Ash etc. after some words were exchanged start threatening Jaleel,and later others..they come and sit down amongst the group uninvited and proceed to talk about killing etc...and generally disrupt our rp...eventually I just ignored them as it gets boring..same thing over and over again from characters who for some reason think it's good to try and bully.

On a side note..regarding CB Nicholson..when he stated about credibility I believe that his stateemnt was getting misconstrued as I think an rp situation..was taken as being rl.This refers to a situation where Jaleel wandered off alone as he felt his friend was wrong in his views of fighting evil...not an rl thing at all..and if CB thinks that..then sorry..it's purely in game.

Of course the core issue here is that I wrongly emoted something I should have phrased..but if someone takes one incident out of context and proclaims it publically as griefing then the DM's would be in for a shock..the number of times such or similar type remarks are said...like last night a PC heard someone was going to do a quest and ooc//Said their alt needed to do that and suddenly went to log off and grab that.Then again it doesn't help when people that don't know you nor could do start throwing insults and threats ..ic or out..as such bad rp tends to set the tone..and after getting bored with such posturing over time...it does wear thin on one's patience.

There is a lot not perfect in Layo..people who level from 1-13 plus in 3 weeks of say 4-6 hours average per day..characters who have the same friends as their mains or former characters do..people who constantly act or declare evil intent..yet retain abilities that dictate their character acts to a strict alignment...and also the situation where characters with evil leanings etc. mix and are friends with characters of good alignments.Sure it could happen...but is unlikely.

Thus Layo isn't perfect..but it's one of the best rp experiences I have had in 30 plus years of such..just a shame that a few try to ..without prior agreement..bully others...then again I suppose cliques form in all walks of life and games are no exception.