Bring the cleric

[Harloff]

In the implossion thread Pankoki stated that layonara shouldn't become a "bring the cleric" game, but as I see it layonara is a bring the cleric or spellslinger (with good buffs) game. Not that i blame anyone or point fingers, I just think that it is a natural result of having a low magic world. Low magic worlds are per definition bring a buffing spellslinger game. If NWN singleplayer was low magic many of the clases would stand little chance of surviving it.

For instance a figther type like Skarp has little chance of surviving on places on dregar without buffs, even when he fights other figther types he needs lots of healing potions and the help from the shield amulet and helmet of armor II in order to survive. And it doesn't help to bring bards, thiefs, figthers, AA's. E.g. yesterday we went to dregar Skarp (14 barb), Geir (10 bard 5 skald), abigail (11 thief), angela (thief/figther 11), Ayla (bard 5, cleric 9 she is not a good buffing spellslinger eventhough she is a cleric), Jaccri (ranger/wizard/AA 19), and we had problems in all fights we had. But then Rolf (cleric 17) joined the party we started cutting through our enemies like butter.

The same thing applies for areas on Mistone Skarp cannot go to the battle fens without the help of a spellslinger, "hammer of gods" would stun him and he would see a quick death. But is "his bestest of friends" Rolf with him the two of them will slaugther every troll they meet.

My point isn't that this is wrong I am just stating what i see as a fact, because i like to call things by their true name.

Futhermore, we are often asked to spend more time on Dregar, and I would really like to but I can only go when I can find a good spellslinger of some sort that can buff me sufficiently to survive. So if more should go to Dregar it should either be safer (like Mistone where all roads are safe and you can go anywhere except through broken forest safely) or give PCs sligthly better eqiupment, e.g. iron armors and shield are +2 instead of +1.

Just my 2 cents...

[Leanthar]

There is nothing wrong with bringing a cleric... I did not read what Pankoki stated so I am not sure exactly how he worded it.  Layonara is about parties, balanced parties, and clerics are amongst those.

[lunchboxkilla]

And this is why I I have been a Cleric in Layo for a year and one in pnp for 5 years. I love being that fine line between life and death. it was never about the power housing they can do and I hardly go to central alone for many reasons. I'll gladly party with the younger and lower levels.

[Harloff]

Leanthar - 11/23/2005  6:26 PM

There is nothing wrong with bringing a cleric... I did not read what Pankoki stated so I am not sure exactly how he worded it.  Layonara is about parties, balanced parties, and clerics are amongst those.

I have never said there was anything wrong with being a cleric nor am I accusing anyone for powergaming. Actually i find that clerics are the basis of many good RP oppertuneties conflicting dogmas, general religious discussions, etc.

My point is that there can be no party without a cleric I can find a group of people willing to adventure but if there is no cleric among them the places we can go is very limeted due to the need of all the extra protection clerics offer. There is nothing wrong with that, I just find it a bit frustrating always to have to find a cleric before i can venture anywhere.

[FlameStrike]

This belief is more based on the fact that Clerics are the only class able to Raise Dead/ Resurrect people, and their presence influences people a bit to the point that with so many protections, they can rush more than usual and be less careful since they can be broughts back after a bit.

 Something fun is, to actually be capable of planning things well and overcome the obstacles without having clerics in the party, even if it means that someone might die, that'll make people learn and on the next time, they'll do even better.

[Doc-Holiday]

Bring Weston... nothing bad ever happens around Weston

[Talan Va'lash]

Its possible to not only survive, but to lay waste to many dregar areas with only 2-4 characters starting at level 10.  Even if none of them are clerics or wizards or sorcerers.  I've done it.  You have to fight well and smart, and if you mistep just a bit, only good rolls can save you.  But thats what makes it exciting

The reason your party had such trouble likely is you had an average party level of 14, fighting level 19 spawns.  

Partying with a very mixed level group comes with its own set of difficulties.

-TV

[Crunch]

Having started playing here with Rawkwin and adjusting when he quit, I have a good appreciation of the value of clerics.  It took us a long time to adust to adventuring without a cleric, but with the right buffs from a wizard/sorcerer, things still go ok.

That said, there are areas where my group still doesn't go, mainly due to death magic.  Higher level wizards can survive due to shadow shield, but the fighters are at too much risk.  It is part of what I find interesting in the game.  The adjustment was very painful at first, but I've learned far more since Rawkwin left than I ever did while he was playing.  Evolution in action I guess.

[aragwen]

Talan Va'lash - 11/23/2005 10:19 PM The reason your party had such trouble likely is you had an average party level of 14, fighting level 19 spawns. Partying with a very mixed level group comes with its own set of difficulties. -TV

  Talan, that is a interesting point. What you saying here is that the spawns are based on the highest level in the party? I always thought spawns was based on the group facing them. In other words if I was to go alone I would spawn the same amount and difficulty level.