Emerald Rumours.

[Chazzler]

Yeah, sorry about the earlier post *nods* I had just woken up and was grumpy. But what's done is done and I can't take it back.

On the other hand, the emeralds' selling value dropping from 100k and so forth to around 50k on my personal posts on the Trade & Market Halls, I can say that I have not dropped the price for greed. I have dropped my personal prices (as you can see from the old posts I made as Godim and the more recent ones as Chakar and Görmungard) have low value on items, something akin to the lens value. This is so, because I wanted to contribute for the lower levels that actually can still benefit from such items as a Cloak of Resistance +2 for example, and make it available for them for a more or less fair price.
I am not saying that people have accused me of greed, but that is how I have felt at times (must be partially due to my mental state depicted in a post I will not link here, but it is available for the public).
Heh, if I would have wanted a fortune, I would have sold the cloaks and whatnot for a 3x, 4x, 5x or so forth higher price, and still people would probably have bought them.

[lonnarin]

20k emeralds eh? where do I sign up?  The labor alone on them once you already have them is RIDICULOUSLY expensive.  60k to cut polish enchant or set them, more than what I feel a raw emerald should be worth in itself.

Cheapest labor I've found is 10k to cut, 10k to polish, 10k to enchant and 10k to set, for 40k per emerald, raw to ring.  And that's after some serious digging.  So I really doubt there are any 20k emeralds out there.  

Whatever somebody wants to sell something for is their own business.  If price-fixers are getting killed by somebody else's undercutting, then they should review the laws of supply and demand and expect the price to drop now that more teams are risking the death token loss, 5-6 hour trip, the drive and the effort to train up to a sufficient level to survive those caves, and the handling of all the most notorious races of the deep.  They made the trip, they expended the labor and ultimately they dictate the prices for with they feel that is worth.

If somebody has a problem with the price of emeralds, then they can go pick up the chisel, assemble the A-Team and go mine some emeralds and price em themselves.  Just don't go looking at other people's property that they worked long and hard for and dictate what they are allowed to do with it.

[Shiokara]

Someone has openly proposed to sell them for 22 k. Just look at the market hall. And this thread was not to open debate on pricing, but to let the community know about lies being spread around on my account.

I have looked at posts in the market hall which used the word emerald for the past year. At no time has someone proposed to sell them for 22k. Someone has proposed to buy them for roughly this price (give or take 1 or 2 thousand), but no one has agreed to sell them as yet.

[jrizz]

Well it is good to hear the views of the community on pricing I withdraw my request for fixed pricing or item prices lists. A free market it is!

[OneST8]

Just out of curiosity... if this guideline for the resale value of CNR items is considered "price fixing"... then what the heck is the deal with banks and their interest rates being set by the Federal Reserve (which is a private institution and not a government body)?

What about the insurance industry? Insurance companies collaborate with eachother to establish "fair market value" for their sub-trades (ie: roofers get X, carpet installers get Y, etc).

There are plenty more examples of real world "price fixing" that is perfectly acceptable by society because these "price fixings" help maintain a stable economy for all.

Following the logic presented by some in this thread; 90% of what holds our economies stable is the work of evil cartels so let's fetch the pitchforks and torches and storm their castles! (ok maybe 90% is and exaggeration but you get the point.)

All sarcasm aside...

I have no problems with a generally agreed upon price list that's used as a guideline for the entire community. It's not easy to get the top-end CNR items and people should have some perspective on that. By no means should that be a "hard and fast" price list, it should be a guide. If you want to sweat it out for a handful of emeralds and sell 'em for 1/2 or even 1/3 their market value... that's your problem and I'm sure you'll have plenty of buyers lining up, just do not under any circumstances expect anyone else to sell at those same prices.

EDIT: Just to be clear; if there is a guide desired, the community should establish the guide, if no one follows it I don't care, if everyone follows it... again I don't care... I just loathe when people go to extremes with their "logic" when in fact their arguments are contorting reality to suite their own personal world view.

[Ravemore]

What about the insurance industry? Insurance companies collaborate with eachother to establish "fair market value" for their sub-trades (ie: roofers get X, carpet installers get Y, etc).

This is incorrect... "Collaboration" is illegal and carries huge fines. Insurers actually use common databases from company's such as Marshall, Swift, and Boeckh that are updated monthly by zip code. Adjusters write estimates and use these as a basis to negotiate an agreed scope and cost of repair with local contractors. I have some contractors in certain trades that I have to pay more in some areas then others because they are the cheapest in that area. The same trade could be much less in a more economically depressed county or zip code. In winter seasons costs go down because work is leaner. Summers it is higher. Supply and demand.

The government also has to approve any rate filings for increases for premiums, and they have to be justified and fiscally correct in relation to the company's solvency or they are denied.

Bottom line, fair market value is exactly that... whatever can be negotiated down to the cheapest dollar. No collaboration factors into the picture. LOL I hear that same argument all the time by many people, they just are not educated in how things actually work. I'll get off of my soapbox now. Hehehe.

[OneST8]

This is incorrect... "Collaboration" is illegal and carries huge fines. Insurers actually use common databases from company's such as Marshall, Swift, and Boeckh that are updated monthly by zip code. Adjusters write estimates and use these as a basis to negotiate an agreed scope and cost of repair with local contractors. I have some contractors in certain trades that I have to pay more in some areas then others because they are the cheapest in that area. The same trade could be much less in a more economically depressed county or zip code. In winter seasons costs go down because work is leaner. Summers it is higher. Supply and demand.

The government also has to approve any rate filings for increases for premiums, and they have to be justified and fiscally correct in relation to the company's solvency or they are denied.

Bottom line, fair market value is exactly that... whatever can be negotiated down to the cheapest dollar. No collaboration factors into the picture. LOL I hear that same argument all the time by many people, they just are not educated in how things actually work. I'll get off of my soapbox now. Hehehe.

Ok, I wasn't meaning in a literal/direct sense of "collaboration" but rather this... if an insurance company pays their installers X, they don't pay other installers (of the same trade in the same region) Y (with exceptions per job based on mitigating factors of course). Also, I work in the insurance industry in Canada and for flooring there is at least one consortium type group that helps regulate the sub-trade fees via price guidelines for the benefit of the insurance companies. The insurance companies can use those values or not however by following the guidelines there are a number of benefits... one being that insurance premiums have less fluctuation, two being that contractors are held to a higher standard of workmanship, three being that sub-trades of general contractors have a clearer means of collecting on unpaid invoices by having direct channels to those that pay the general contractors and fourthly the insurers have a means of negotiating better deals on materials with manufacturers (through the intermediary group).

So yeah, perhaps some of what I stated is not concrete or 100% accurate but I did not base my remarks on speculation either. Granted, I'm not American and so have little direct experience with that insurance market.

As for the other things, I did not mean to imply that there are hard-fast rules for anything but rather that there are "guides" for general markets (that of course fluctuate with supply and demand) but regardless there are still guides. So, if people want to publish their own guides for CNR, I have no qualms with it being used or not or whatever.

People just need to chill out and play the game rather than cause everyone grief.

(Aside: Sometimes I have to really question myself as to why I read/comment-on the forums for anything other than bug reports.)

[Dorganath]

(Aside: Sometimes I have to really question myself as to why I read/comment-on the forums for anything other than bug reports.)

Yeah, I wonder why you do to!  

ESPECIALLY the bug reports. :p

*hides*

[miltonyorkcastle]

Feel the love! Group hug!

*wicked grin*

The above comments are spoken in jest. Please keep a safe distance and your non-trolly paws off me. Thanks and have a great day!

[OneST8]

Yeah, I wonder why you do to!  

ESPECIALLY the bug reports. :p

*hides*

Ha



ha




heh


:rolleyes:

[Ravemore]

Dude.. didn't mean to upset you. Just speaking for my group of nine companies, we do do it differently... but I'm sure there are a lot others out there that do it your way. I thought you were being literal... text is a bad medium for conveying intent at times. Was just making a comment on my perception of that.

If I caused you grief.... please accept my apology as it was not intended.

To your aside: Don't question yourself, just comment and respond, points of view are appreciated even if they are contrary to what others believe. LOL

Ok, I wasn't meaning in a literal/direct sense of "collaboration" but rather this... if an insurance company pays their installers X, they don't pay other installers (of the same trade in the same region) Y (with exceptions per job based on mitigating factors of course). Also, I work in the insurance industry in Canada and for flooring there is at least one consortium type group that helps regulate the sub-trade fees via price guidelines for the benefit of the insurance companies. The insurance companies can use those values or not however by following the guidelines there are a number of benefits... one being that insurance premiums have less fluctuation, two being that contractors are held to a higher standard of workmanship, three being that sub-trades of general contractors have a clearer means of collecting on unpaid invoices by having direct channels to those that pay the general contractors and fourthly the insurers have a means of negotiating better deals on materials with manufacturers (through the intermediary group).

So yeah, perhaps some of what I stated is not concrete or 100% accurate but I did not base my remarks on speculation either. Granted, I'm not American and so have little direct experience with that insurance market.

As for the other things, I did not mean to imply that there are hard-fast rules for anything but rather that there are "guides" for general markets (that of course fluctuate with supply and demand) but regardless there are still guides. So, if people want to publish their own guides for CNR, I have no qualms with it being used or not or whatever.

People just need to chill out and play the game rather than cause everyone grief.

(Aside: Sometimes I have to really question myself as to why I read/comment-on the forums for anything other than bug reports.)

[OneST8]

Dude.. didn't mean to upset you.

Nah, you didn't upset me at all... it's just the general feel of this thread that's irked me into that foul mood conveyed through the obviously poor medium of text.