I would like a gm to explain this to me please-move to where ever if needed

ok so i just read that it is illegal in layonara to lure and was recommended to make a post about it.  So i mean I understand/was explained to, that it makes sense that it could be illegal cause i mean, if theres a like 10 ogres on a hill, and you decided you are going to lure one, and it battle cries and comes running after you, realistically the rest would come.  My arguement is though that if luring is illegal, then there would be no way to gain xp.  I mean when i do it with a party, its not like we are abusing it and luring rating impossible creatures, we are luring things we can take on by ourselves one vs one, or even two vs one.  So i mean if luring was illegal, the only creatures you could just run into a big group of would be a big group of goblins who give like 13 xp?  There would be no way you could level at this rate...  This is why i dont get why luring would be made illegal when there would really be no way to strengthen your character otherwise.  So i guess i would just like a gm to explain there thoughts on this, and explain to me why luring is illegal... thanks

[Dorganath]

This is often a tricky topic, but I'll try and distill it down for you.  Overall, it relies on your common sense and good judgement to decide whether you are doing something you probably shouldn't.  I will attempt some guidelines so perhaps it's clearer.
  There's a very fine line between luring as a sound battle tactic and abusing the AI, which is of course...not the best. Standing at the very edge of a creature's vision so that he can see you and you only, then drawing him out beyond the vision of his comrades is one such instance of abusing AI. Getting the attention of a small group and then drawing them into an ambush is more along the lines of sound tactics.  Again...use some sense and good judgement.
  One thing that is absolutely not permitted is getting in over your head and then running into a town or to an NPC and having that NPC take care of your mess for you.  There are many problems with this, and I am not going to list them here.  It should be obvious though that this is not only an abuse of AI but also completely disrespectful to your fellow players.
  Two other comments...First, there are other, better ways to gain XP, such as quests. 
  And there are ways to kill creatures without abusing their AI.  Preparation, planning, and going with a well-built group into places with an appropriate level of challenge for your group.
  I hope that helps.

[ShrubberyJSC]

Also, it seems it is almost a skill akin to not being seen at all.
To fight no monsters, one must be skilled at sneaking, to lure off a sentry, one must be good at judging the distance.
Really, that's what it seems like to me: luring off sentries.
perfect example: the goblin wastelands. There are several archers and a main group.
A sly person lures off the single archers who are arrogant enough to think they can kill the intruder by themselves.
Once they are dispatched the person kills the remainders.
Also, this is the first I've read of this issue.
Please post this on the rules, so that everyone will know that it is not okay.
The only way I found it is because my friends told me, and I searched for the word "Luring" in the forums.
It seems most appropiate to include this in the forum post marked "Server Rules"

Thanks.

[Dorganath]

I'm not going to let ths get into an argument or a debate.
  Luring as I described it and blatantly abusing the AI is against server rules.  The reasons why should be common sense and quite obvious.  If something seems like an exploit or an abuse of game mechanics, then it probably shouldn't be done.  We don't have the forum space, time or inclination to write down every possible thing that most people should understand as being common sense.  Use some good judgement and ask yourself, "is this right".
  If a GM witnesses any such blatant abuses, the offending party will be talked to and asked not to continue that practice.  If the practice continues, some sort of action will be taken against the player.  If we get reports from other players that someone is abusing the AI or something to that effect, we will watch.  I cannot offer concrete examples or define things any better than I already have.
  Abuse of AI and game mechanics is not allowed.  Using NPCs and townspeople to clean up your messes are not allowed.  When in doubt, ask.

[Candyman111]

So is what ur saying this: don't lure unless you can RP it?
Candyman

ok thank you for the response and i will keep all that you have said in mind

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

And when they follow you when you thought they stopped, popping out of the town's AT as you settle down to Rest a few HP back... You run through the AT again, the other way, and get it to follow you. At least, that's the RIGHT thing to do...  As for luring off one or two powerful creatures from a group so that you can kill it without getting slaughtered? Just good tactics to bring the buggers to a chokepoint; the monsters that are smart enough to go after you properly have AIs who'll send 'em that way, in my experience. The dumber creatures seem to have dumber AIs. If it's blatantly the AI not figuring things out, though... Well, exploitation's wrong.

lol alright cool, so what we are doing is ok?  Like when we go into haven mines, and we find a bottleneck and lure em in there like maybey 2 or 3 at a time, thats fine right?  Like ive always thought of ogres being stupid anways so they probably wouldnt know whats going on...

[ShrubberyJSC]

I understand. I was just wondering.

[Candyman111]

I agree with Wex, if a creature is stupid, it would leave his comapnions out of curiosity and would realisticly be easy to lure so a group of people who wanted to kill silently would lure them one at a time
Candyman

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Candyman111 - 12/2/2005  1:28 AM  I agree with Wex, if a creature is stupid, it would leave his comapnions out of curiosity and would realisticly be easy to lure so a group of people who wanted to kill silently would lure them one at a time Candyman

 Hey, hey, credit where credit is due.

[Dorganath]

This is the last time:
  If it looks, seems, tastes, smells or otherwise appears to be an abuse of game mechanics or AI, don't do it.
  I think that's pretty simple.

[Niles09]

?!?!?!??!!? is it forbidden to lure monsters?! ok there goes a lot of the strategy and fun of Layonara, goblin gang here I come!
No honestly dont make the game impossible.

[blonde]

*sighs* Not again...

[Leanthar]

What Dorganath has stated is right on.  I will reply and then freeze this topic.
  Use your head and use common sense. There is no hard fast way of stating do not do x or y but z is okay.  It is a computer game and the AI is out of our control.  But what was stated above by Dorganath is right on. If it looks, feels, smells like abuse then quite likely it is abuse and is not allowed.
  If the AI is being abused then it is not allowed. If the AI is functioning okay and it feels and seems right then it is okay.
  As to those that want to make snide remarks and such (looks above)...that gets you nowhere in this community so don't do it. Constructive feedback, not snide or flippant remarks.