Author Topic: Level differences between characters (Read 88 times)

merlin34baseball · « **on:** September 19, 2006, 05:21:02 pm »

OK... I started a player run event called Ladies Night out, just for women PCS, on Sunday night when there seemed like there was really nothing going on quest wise and such. Here is my dilema, as there have been some posts on the level spread of characters who travel together. Where we go during the event is completely up to those who show up.

Last Sunday there was a level spread of level 4 to level 20. This was pointed out to me by another in the party (thank you LynnJuniper) and maybe I should have given it more thought but everyone was ready to go. We went to the Berhagens and saw the underground lake there. Was it wrong to let a 4th level character travel with us? (the spread was all over... 4th through 20th, it wasn't like there was a 4th level PC following around 10 level 20s, my character is 12th and several others who were there were 7, 8, 9th)

I can't bring myself to start looking at the floaty text and telling someone who showed up for some bonding and fun that they can't come because the text says easy or effortless over their heads.

Can I get some feed back on this. I don't want a GM to see the spread and think that we're up to no good, but I don't want to have to start looking at levels and sending people away. Next week we may decide to go to Dregar who knows, it's up to the group, but I think I personally would be a bit miffed if I logged on to go to an event and was told, "No you can't come, the floaty text says so".

JDiggity · « **Reply #1 on:** September 19, 2006, 05:29:40 pm »

While I was avoiding one of my papers, I came accross this (somewhat older) post
:
http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29773&posts=16&start=1

Not sure if you were looking for more detail, but the stuff here made sense to me.

merlin34baseball · « **Reply #2 on:** September 19, 2006, 05:39:42 pm »

Thank you... I even posted in that thread *slaps forhead*

So what I get out of it is if there is a role play reason (Ladies Night Out) then there isn't a problem.

Comments anyone? Especially the BIG DOGS...

Lilswanwillow · « **Reply #3 on:** September 20, 2006, 05:23:32 am »

I think, that since its all about RP, and it WAS fun the last/first one, even though I did not... come back... its fun, and its playable since we go out and do stuff, and its not 'drag someone around' time...

Blackguy · « **Reply #4 on:** September 20, 2006, 07:16:54 am »

As I understand it, its no problem have a level 4 with you in your party, aslong as its on west, and you dont take them someplace to farm XP. But the problem arises if you take said 4th level person to Central or East, even just for RP. Those places are not meant for such lowlevel players, If you did absolutely no Combat and RP'ed all the time, I presume you could take a person Central or East. But if it becomes combat oriented its a no go.

Leanthar · « **Reply #5 on:** September 20, 2006, 07:24:54 am »

What blackguy stated is correct. Within reason and common sense is what we ask for here. We are not here to ruin the fun or anything like that. We just do not want low level players dragged around for XP/GP/Items gain, that is against the spirit (and rules) of the server. If there is combat make sure ALL party members are actively engaged and not just sitting back gaining XP etc. Actively RP'ing and engaged in combat is how it should happen.

Weeblie · « **Reply #6 on:** September 20, 2006, 07:46:38 am »

The interesting thing here is though that the level 4 person wouldn't get any XP on east.

Level difference is too great for him to get any.

Heh, if I would have been the level 4 person, I wouldn't even dare to enter east. It's kind of bad if all monsters are killing you in 1 round (even with AoE spells!

).

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #7 on:** September 20, 2006, 10:16:18 am »

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Leanthar - 9/20/2006 10:24 AM
If there is combat make sure ALL party members are actively engaged and not just sitting back gaining XP etc. Actively RP'ing and engaged in combat is how it should happen.

Not that it needs it, but I wholeheartedly second that idea. My characters typically run around with characters of much higher level, simply because the RP works out that way. And what do they do in those instances? Pyyran kills things, scouts, and lures. Tyeaan casts. Barret shoots bolts, or even melees if it wouldn't be suicide, and tracks thier quarry when given the chance.

Admittedly, one has to know how to work the game pretty well in a lot of cases, to not get slaughtered out of hand on some trips. But, like complex RP, that's just a matter of experience.

So it boils down to this: If you're putting forth effort to keep things from being mindless muling, then you're probably alright. If it feels like you're getting something for nothing, well, you probably are, and shouldn't be doing whatever it is.

Let's not forget, though, that if a spawn is enough levels higher than the character, killing it gives you nothing for XP. A fourth level character on East would probably not walk away with anything more than a cut of the gold. Heck, even Pyyran might not.

Blackguy · « **Reply #8 on:** September 20, 2006, 10:31:55 am »

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Leanthar - 9/20/2006 4:24 PM If there is combat make sure ALL party members are actively engaged and not just sitting back gaining XP etc. Actively RP'ing and engaged in combat is how it should happen.

This is still level depended. You cant take a level 11 or 15 cleric to East with you, and even thou they are healing you, and pulling their share, its not right. There is some greyareas, but common sense works a long way, and if it feels wrong, it probably is.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #9 on:** September 20, 2006, 10:59:24 am »

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Blackguy - 9/20/2006 1:31 PM
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Leanthar - 9/20/2006 4:24 PM If there is combat make sure ALL party members are actively engaged and not just sitting back gaining XP etc. Actively RP'ing and engaged in combat is how it should happen.

This is still level depended. You cant take a level 11 or 15 cleric to East with you, and even thou they are healing you, and pulling their share, its not right. There is some greyareas, but common sense works a long way, and if it feels wrong, it probably is.

The question is, why not? A level 30 cleric who just heals, casting Cure Moderate Wounds, is very little different from a level 15 cleric who just heals, casting Cure Moderate Wounds. The level 30 would have other spells at his or her disposal, but... Why would an Adventurer not want to go somewhere exciting? If there's RP reason to go, but an OOC reason not to, I'll listen to the RP every time.

EdTheKet · « **Reply #10 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:08:45 am »

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The level 30 would have other spells at his or her disposal, but...

Said level 30 cleric would not only be casting healing. Said cleric would use his/her full range of spells, like spell resistance, lvl 9 summons, great magic weapon and what not, all by a level 30 caster.
That's something totally different from a lvl 15 one who just casts cure moderate wounds.

And another reason why not, is because we ask.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #11 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:14:10 am »

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EdTheKet - 9/20/2006 2:08 PM

Quote
The level 30 would have other spells at his or her disposal, but...
Said level 30 cleric would not only be casting healing. Said cleric would use his/her full range of spells, like spell resistance, lvl 9 summons, great magic weapon and what not, all by a level 30 caster.
That's something totally different from a lvl 15 one who just casts cure moderate wounds.

And another reason why not, is because we ask.

Point. Still, the liklihood of a level 15 character having reason to go to East with an appropriate party for the server... The lower-level character would need a very, very good reason; one that couldn't be ignored. (Whereas if the reason could be ignored, it would be. Or should be, at least.)

Eh. The important things to be said seem to have. Any new sides to this?

DMOE · « **Reply #12 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:15:37 am »

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EdTheKet - 9/20/2006 7:08 PM And another reason why not, is because we ask.

And that to me is an important one that beats the rest!

jrizz · « **Reply #13 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:16:30 am »

I posted this in another thread but thought it should be here now.

We have had a lot said on this subject in a few different threads. Here is what I think the summary is so far:

1. If a char cannot or is not contributing to encounters (fights, puzzles...) then they should not be there (I guess the exception to this would be grave retrieval)
2. If there is a good RP reason for a wide level spread then it is fine.
3. If you are in a party with a wide level spread and the lowest of those levels are below 10 then don’t go to Central or East.
4. If you are in a party with a wide level spread and the lowest of those levels is between 10 and 14 then you can go to Central but not East.
5. If you are in a party with a wide level spread and the lowest of those levels is not below 15 then you can go to Central or East.
6. If you are below 10th level you should not be on Central or East.
7. If you are below 15th level you should not be on East.
8. If you are on a GM run quest the above do not apply.

I shoud add that some of this comes from talking with other player and what they have been told by GMs.

Dorganath · « **Reply #14 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:17:01 am »

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Stephen_Zuckerman - 9/20/2006 12:59 PM
Quote
Blackguy - 9/20/2006 1:31 PM
Quote
Leanthar - 9/20/2006 4:24 PM If there is combat make sure ALL party members are actively engaged and not just sitting back gaining XP etc. Actively RP'ing and engaged in combat is how it should happen.

This is still level depended. You cant take a level 11 or 15 cleric to East with you, and even thou they are healing you, and pulling their share, its not right. There is some greyareas, but common sense works a long way, and if it feels wrong, it probably is.

The question is, why not? A level 30 cleric who just heals, casting Cure Moderate Wounds, is very little different from a level 15 cleric who just heals, casting Cure Moderate Wounds. The level 30 would have other spells at his or her disposal, but... Why would an Adventurer not want to go somewhere exciting? If there's RP reason to go, but an OOC reason not to, I'll listen to the RP every time.

Why not? East is designed for levels 18 and up. 15 is clearly below that.
I'm really not interested in splitting the particular hair of what is and is not a good RP reason. I'm sure everyone could come up with at least 5 good "what if" situations.
The best thing said so far entails common sense.
My other character is a 6th level druid, and I could work up pretty reasonable RP excuse to be on East, namely to visit the Great Oak and perhaps even seek audience with Rhizome the Hierophant himself. But stepping back a bit, I can see that this character would have no protections against the foes on Xantril, no real ability to do meaningful damage to anything there, no way to contribute to the effort except for a few barkskin and light healing spells, in short, he'd be useless and only sponging XP under the auspicese of seeing a PC who I know OOC probably won't be there. Strong RP reason...but not a good enough reason.
And what Ed said....because we asked.

Blackguy · « **Reply #15 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:22:24 am »

That is not entirely correct. Central is treated being midlevel for players, so if you in the 12-18 range your fine to go and have fun. but I would still advise that your 15 if your going there no a regular basis, like every single day, or week, with lower level players.
East is offlimits for people under 18, to a certain degree aswell. I can follow the points being wsaid about you can RP a very good reason for following a higher level party to east. But just because you can, you shouldnt.
And Its been made clear by the DM's and Leanthar that he kindly ask you to respect these rules, so theres no need to make a set in stone rule about it. Cause you all know if you a place your to low to go. And if he ask it, why just not accept it and dont argue this to the point where it makes no sense.
*Edit*
This was in reply to Jrizz post before yours Dorg

jrizz · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:22:47 am »

Then your 6th level druid's life quest would be to gain the abilities needed to make the trip to the great oak. Athough I will add that I had a ranger who at 12th levelhad a hide that was good enough to travel all over east (solo) and map the place out. So if you do not engage in combat can you go to east and explore?

Blackguy · « **Reply #17 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:32:18 am »

Theres no rule for RP oriented events, where you travel to for say the Great Oak, or visiting some places on Central.
The point trying to be said here is that, usually these trips serves a purpose, but they also tries to hide the fact that the lower level player gets a chance to get some Xp simply because to travel on east = combat, the same with some places on Central. But it can be done, and ive seen it done without no combat at all. Aslong as you use your common sense, and dont kill every single spawn on the way travelling to a place.

jrizz · « **Reply #18 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:52:37 am »

Revised as per L's statements.

1. If a char cannot or is not contributing to encounters (fights, puzzles...) then they should not be there (I guess the exception to this would be grave retrieval)
2. If there is a good RP reason for a wide level spread then it is fine. Not forced or contrived RP.
3. If you are in a party with a wide level spread and the lowest of those levels are below 9 then don’t go to Central or East.
4. If you are in a party with a wide level spread and the lowest of those levels is between 9 and 15 then you can go to Central but not East.
5. If you are in a party with a wide level spread and the lowest of those levels is not below 16 (if the RP reason is REAL good then 15 might be ok) then you can go to Central or East.
6. If you are below 9th level you should not be on Central or East.
7. If you are below 16th (if the RP reason is REAL good then 15 might be ok) level you should not be on East.
8. If you are on a GM run quest the above do not apply.

Blackguy · « **Reply #19 on:** September 20, 2006, 11:57:30 am »

I dont like rules for something that should be obvious to most that play.