Author Topic: people playing montrous races. suggestion... (Read 583 times)

Deacon · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2007, 07:51:09 am »

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Dorganath - 2/23/2007 9:24 AM Do not meta-game the race or any thing else about another PC that your character does not know based upon their portrait, floaty name, server status info or any other piece of information that your PC would not see.
If a disguised drow walks by, you should not look at the character's portrait, shout "DROW!!!!," draw swords and start attacking it.
Once again, as with many things, it boils down to common sense and maturity. There is no "right" reaction to monstrous races, though there is a "typical" one and that should be generally quite negative.

AMEN!

Force_of_Will_ · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2007, 08:37:31 am »

Awww
I wanted to get some popcorn and watch Tath attack Honora.It would be funny to watch her mop the streets of Hlint with him.

I wish the dev team would remove the challange rating from a PC's and NPC's examine page.

Honora · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2007, 08:44:28 am »

Now, to be fair, Honora would likely try to talk to the guy, and if that failed keep stunning him until Garret could come and apprehend him.

She is lawful, after all

.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2007, 08:52:23 am »

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Force_of_Will_ - 2/23/2007 11:37 AM
I wish the dev team would remove the challange rating from a PC's and NPC's examine page.

That would be SO funny... "Oh, that half Ogre doesnt look so tough"

...five seconds later...

"RUN AWAY!" *smash.... Death*

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2007, 08:57:48 am »

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Dorganath - 2/23/2007 10:24 AM

>However, with V3 coming out, we're going to be opening PvP a bit, hoping for some maturity and discretion on the part of players without being overly burdened by procedure. And that's ultimately what's behind this whole discussion of monstrous races, is it not? Maybe not killing another PC, but rather having the freedom to RP these conflicts, coming to combat in some cases when appropriate.

No Offense, but whats keeping a WoW MMO/metagamer from joining Layo and causing problem (aka getting himself and other low lvl pcs killed)? I mean some openness with PvP does leave some more RP options for when you are threatened by another PC, but I know people (not now on LAyo) That would be all gung ho about Being annoying with PVP

And Since I have a PC cursed to look like a drow (NO! I'm not explaining it here) I dont feel like fending off annoying meta gamering "New Guys"

Dorganath · « **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2007, 09:31:10 am »

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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/23/2007 10:57 AM
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Dorganath - 2/23/2007 10:24 AM >However, with V3 coming out, we're going to be opening PvP a bit, hoping for some maturity and discretion on the part of players without being overly burdened by procedure. And that's ultimately what's behind this whole discussion of monstrous races, is it not? Maybe not killing another PC, but rather having the freedom to RP these conflicts, coming to combat in some cases when appropriate.

No Offense, but whats keeping a WoW MMO/metagamer from joining Layo and causing problem (aka getting himself and other low lvl pcs killed)? I mean some openness with PvP does leave some more RP options for when you are threatened by another PC, but I know people (not now on LAyo) That would be all gung ho about Being annoying with PVP
And Since I have a PC cursed to look like a drow (NO! I'm not explaining it here) I dont feel like fending off annoying meta gamering "New Guys"

Well, that's a fair question, and I don't know why I'd take offense at it. Here's the answer:
I said we would be opening PvP a bit, not allowing open PvP. There's a big difference.
Like everything else, we'll do this the Layonara way...
PvP will still require consent between both parties through a new system. That consent will last a period of time, after which PvP may not occur/continue. Details on this will be released with V3, but the key thing here is: There is no PvP without consent. And yes, we can track this, so anyone who abuses it in deed or spirit is going to see action from the GM Team.
And if needed, we can turn the whole thing off in a heartbeat.
And that is why I mentioned discretion and maturity.
Now, the element you describe could still come here and PvP their little hearts out...that is, until we find them and ban them.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2007, 09:44:18 am »

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Dorganath - 2/23/2007 12:31 PM

Now, the element you describe could still come here and PvP their little hearts out...that is, until we find them and ban them.

*writes himself a note in neon colored hi-liters* Don't PVP your heart out *and stick it on his Monitor*

Does that mean I can't dish out the law of the land on said "element" should i come across them?

Dorganath · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:02:48 am »

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ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/23/2007 11:44 AM Does that mean I can't dish out the law of the land on said "element" should i come across them?

I believe the answer to this is written in my previous response.

EdTheKet · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:03:55 am »

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Does that mean I can't dish out the law of the land

No, as you're not judge and executioner.

Varka · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:04:01 am »

Quote from Dorganath:
One other thing to keep in mind. Monstrous and special sub-races have been suppressed now for many in-game years. Those monstrous race PCs currently being played have quite literally been around for many (game) years, and have likely gained some degree of acceptance among many, even if your PC has not yet seen them. That they walk openly among others is one indication of this.
End..

Wow I would like to see a mob trying to chase Syn out of Hlint

..... shiss kebab ...and a moment later only Syn returns...

Hellblazer · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:08:10 am »

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Witch Hunter - 2/23/2007 9:09 AM Well theres the problem - too many of them do good thing. When something goes againts its nature... well, it's very rare - you can't expect every single orc and ogre you meet in town to be good, yet they are (mostly) and it's rather annoying!

what you see is the pc, you also have to keep in mind the npc's side of thigs, you see 3 drow and you say it's to much, you foget the thousands npc's that do bad things.

ShiffDrgnhrt · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:10:11 am »

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EdTheKet - 2/23/2007 1:03 PM

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Does that mean I can't dish out the law of the land
No, as you're not judge and executioner.

I know... I just like to joke around... Would be fun to bash annoying metagamers though... I guess thats what WoW is for then

Gulnyr · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:19:11 am »

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Dorganath - 2/23/2007 12:31 PM

And yes, we can track this, so anyone who abuses it in deed or spirit is going to see action from the GM Team.

Does this go both ways? In other words, would someone who hides behind a lack of consent be just as wrong as someone who goes out of his way to attack others?

As an example, let's say there is a character of a 'bad' nature hanging around in Town City. Maybe he's a Drow, or a Pyrtechonite, or a Paladin - whatever might be 'bad' in Town City. And let's say a group of 'good' guys gets together to try to drive the 'bad' guy out of town, and they are willing to attack him to do it. If the player of the 'bad' guy refuses to leave after some RP, and then refuses to accept PvP and hides behind the lack of consent - "You can't attack me because I don't want to fight, and I'll stay here as long as I like." - is that an abuse of the spirit behind the PvP system and/or Layonara?

I'm not trying to force anyone into PvP. I'm not all that interested in it myself. I just don't want to see another loophole for metagaming. Right now, there isn't a lot of racial tension or religious conflict because a lot of people have just given up trying. It's much less irritating to ignore the Drow, Corathite, etc., than to go through some long and ultimately fruitless RP yet again. Allowing PvP might help, but if people refuse to participate and continue on as if they aren't in danger (aka metagaming), then nothing really changes.

Dorganath · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2007, 10:46:44 am »

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Gulnyr - 2/23/2007 12:19 PM Does this go both ways? In other words, would someone who hides behind a lack of consent be just as wrong as someone who goes out of his way to attack others?

It's currently wrong, so it will probably continue to be wrong.
Thankfully this base of players is overall pretty good about such things, so I hope not to be disappointed.
Time will tell though, right?

lonnarin · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:19:26 pm »

Keep in mind that open PVP sounds like a good idea until you notice that 2/3 of the active orcs serve Czukay, and have a well organized posse that will be looking out for its own. So shoot the orcs on sight... get your blood drunken by the firey skull and your innards mailed to the Soul Mother packaged up in a little pink bow. The rules in place are all that's keeping you newcomers from ultimate doom. You think that we wouldn't enjoy killing you people on sight, revelling in your dying last breaths and scattering your soul strands to the winds on sight? Heck, we could bring Chanda, Tamera, Sabel, Alice, Nethero, Zergon, Klugger, Aliester's pet grue, about half of 8-Bit's characters, Tathnalu and every other player who ever toed the line of the dark side and just storm Hlint for 80 hours straight... but all that would accomplish is a whole slew of players getting frustrated and not playing anymore. What kind of victory is that? Please at least have a REASON to kill somebody for PVP. Looking at somebody and saying "oh, bad race! Kill it! dont even let it talk, kill it!" is pretty much Chaotic Evil, and we don't approve that alignment at this time... or likely ever.

Now Kor is more than willing to take anybody who threatens him to the arena... just 9/10s of the people who bark at him run away while still shaking their fists in anger. Those that have fought him there usually wind up being his few friends in the game interestingly enough. He's not one of the good ones that Hector hates running into either.. He *should* be slaying dwarves on sight as a cleric of Grand, but since it's against the rules and I don't feel like making poor people playing dwarves have to spend 90% of their time online resting off their deaths, so I dont. I mostly try not to hang out with them, refuse to party with them at all, and shout insults in orcish, refusing even to talk tot hem in a common tongue... that's RPing hatred. Just running around in game shouting "P0WnZ0R! Kill That Dwarf!" as soon as you see them just feels too much like WoW to me.

And we ALL know that if PVP ever got that automatic, that people would be metagaming horribly pretending that they mystically magically see through every disguise and costume a drow wears, as far too many already do. I have Rakish in a full body suit of skin-textured leather in which you can't see a single scrap of his heritage, but already at least 20 times people keep meta-emoting *sees through the disguise* or screams "I'll not fall for your tricks, drow!" instantly without so much as a check. So open, knee-jerk PVP fundamentally is a horrible idea... RP your hate, don't just shove it down people's throat for kicks. The Staff already have had to remove the DIETY field from the server status page because the players couldn't manage aound Metagaming that info... open PVP therefore will only succeed in making disguises pointless. People see a drow face in the portrait and you could look like a 3 foot tall white-skinned human girl holding kitten for all they'd care... you'd still get slaughtered on sight by a posse of people shrieking "DROW!"

Furthermore, people only seem to notice their inherent racism when the monstrous character is at least 5 levels lower than they are, or outnumbered 4 to 1. I've seen people who grumble at Rakish that they'll kill him turn right around and politely buy gear off Darilith & Tathnalu, all based on the color of the text above their heads. These and many more reasons are why the PVP rules are as they are.

That being said, Tath is the only dark skinned human I've seen in game, and we should all just attack him on sight because he's obviously some new kind of human-eared drow.

Now on the lack of consent issue... if somebody doesn't want to get followed around and killed all day long, please respect their wishes. Sometimes you have things to do, have limited time in RL before bedtime and just don't have the 13 hours it takes to duel 184 people on the way to the bank... and it's not like there are any wilderness crafthalls and banks and shops to go to... if we had them we would gladly use them instead of passing through that wretched town Hlint. Sadly the people who want pvp the most tend to be the ones who abuse the non-pvp rules the most, since they insult you to no end and when you point to the arena, they pitter patter off like a child fleeing to its mother's skirt. Now on the flip side, if I challenge somebody to the arena and they refuse, I know better than to follow them around town making chicken noises for 3 hours afterwards griefing them, which is what more open PVP will lead to anyhow. People would just start griping "There's open pvp but he wont fight me, CHICKEN! CHICKEN!" day in and day out like every non-rp server out there.

I advise everybody in this thread to please review the World of Warcraft episode of Southpark and tell me... Do you really want that fat, half-comatose griefer guy running your lives?

Drizzlin · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:40:44 pm »

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Eight-Bit - 2/23/2007 6:23 AM
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Laldiien - 2/23/2007 9:21 AM
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Witch Hunter - 2/23/2007 9:09 AM Well theres the problem - too many of them do good thing. When something goes againts its nature... well, it's very rare - you can't expect every single orc and ogre you meet in town to be good, yet they are (mostly) and it's rather annoying!
Annoying to who? If you have a problem with it, stay away from them. If you want to challenge it, ask a GM to sanction PvP against them. Otherwise, all this sound and fury on the boards is just meaningless text. Do your characters shun them? Do your characters go on quests with them? You shouldn't if you feel that strongly about it.
Lead by example.

I agree entirely, Laldiien. I have yet to be challenged by anyone while speaking Infernal, or even going around without a hood on. Being a Tiefling, and an obvious Tiefling to boot, I am kind of disappointed in the fact that instead of being seen as a threat I am ignored.

Yeah me too!!! If you would spend more time trying to burn this guy at the stake...then my poor helpless drow would have more of an opportunity to do the things he needs to do behind your backs! Edit: LOL Lorinin. A lot of what you said was true and it made my stomach hurt from laughing as I read it =P. I would like to think they buy from me because of the 3 years I built up my reputation as a merchant selling goods from the underdark!

Faldred · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2007, 12:45:54 pm »

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lonnarin - 2/23/2007 3:19 PM (deleted for brevity)

Why don't you tell us how you really feel.

Personally, I'm not in favor of "open PvP" -- there should always be a GOOD RP reason you'd actually go to the extreme of trying to kill someone you just "run into". I'm just fine with the DM-sanctioned limited PvP we already have. If I wanted to play on a PvP server, I would play on one.

Jearick Hgar · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2007, 01:48:05 pm »

"That being said, Tath is the only dark skinned human I've seen in game, and we should all just attack him on sight because he's obviously some new kind of human-eared drow. " GAH! found out my secret >.< lol But ya i agree with Lon's nicely put points. Though we do have rules against thigns sucha s that, for instance "no griefing" ic greifing ooc griefing, griefing is grifieing. Also i'm pretty sure people aren't gunna run out and try to kill every orc/troll/goblin etc they can or see. As Dorg said many monstrous races have been around for a good amount of time so they would be somewhat well known, however that's only to the mainlanders. us Ziambii Ki webi killin dem evil monstahs or deybi killin us yuh? That's how Tath sees it, he came to the mainland and imidiatly started killing goblins with people, befroe eh even knew the word for them. then it went to ogres, then giants. He also comes from a pretty Black or White society, So having him slaughter countless goblins then comming in town and there's a goblin, well he would taunt it intimidate it, and tell it to leave or he'll kill it. That's me though, most people are from the mainlands, in fact everyone but two of us are =P.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #38 on:** February 23, 2007, 04:39:08 pm »

*Grins.* Though those black-skinned elves don't seem too horrible to Xu... Hey, Jearick, what's the Ha'Shan word for Drow? Do they even have one?

Griefing is griefing. It doesn't matter (though it pains me to say) whether or not it's in the spirit of good RP, if it really ruins the other player's time, then... What good is it?

That said, I've always kept my torch and pitchfork handy for a good ol' drow-hanging, a nice goblin-roast, or an orc-skewering good time.

Jearick Hgar · « **Reply #39 on:** February 23, 2007, 06:19:59 pm »

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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/23/2007 4:39 PM

*Grins.* Though those black-skinned elves don't seem too horrible to Xu... Hey, Jearick, what's the Ha'Shan word for Drow? Do they even have one?

Griefing is griefing. It doesn't matter (though it pains me to say) whether or not it's in the spirit of good RP, if it really ruins the other player's time, then... What good is it?

That said, I've always kept my torch and pitchfork handy for a good ol' drow-hanging, a nice goblin-roast, or an orc-skewering good time.

for any person from Gionda (Dion) there is no word for elf, halfing, goblins, ogres, trolls, drow, orc, gnome, half-orc, etc. as far as we are concerned, there is only what we have on Gionda: humans, animals, N'!okos (the treeants), the three tailed cat, and fairy dragons =).