Author Topic: people playing montrous races. suggestion... (Read 581 times)

Jearick Hgar · « **on:** February 22, 2007, 05:47:15 pm »

I wanna throw this out cuz i've seen a good deal of goblins and ogres over the last few days.

In my opinion players who willingly play Montrous races should have to make an agreement that they can be attacked at any time seeing as their race is killed on a daily basis. My character sees an ogre, he kills it. en do fstory. I don't want to have to halt pause... "dabi a ogre? whatbi deh ogre doin in deh town?" when in actuallity he would run yelling die ogre and attack regardless of whather he could kill it or not. same if not mroe so with goblins. ever since a goblin cast harm on him during a quest, he's ahd a special hatred for them.

I'm also really tired of seeing people who go into the red light caverns kill goblisn then coem up and say "hey don't pesture that poor goblin!" they are monstrous races, if you kill a whole tribe of them in a cave why would you go out and try to protect one jsut cuz it's not glowing red with a sword for a cursor when you put your mouse over it.

I am really happy that monstrous races have been disabled, cuz it would be alot mroe fustrating to see ogres goblins orcs and anythign else runnign around the city while Tath jsut sits there confused as to why he's not attacking them.

I know these are player, but RP says that it shouldn't matter, they choose to make a monstrous race they choose to take what's comming. it shoudl be tough living in the world and being an ogre trying to make friends. a s a refrence, Drizzt from RA slavatore. In the begining he got attacked by people all the time untill he finally got his mask to disguise him as a high elf. it shoudl be the exact same thing. An ogre is an ogre is an ogre. Just cuz there's a player behidn it doesn't mean we should treat it like an ugly human.

Drizzlin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2007, 06:02:19 pm »

I dont know what in the world you are talking about. I check the character status page all the time. Right now I usually see a ratio of about 40 to 1 for standard races vs monsterous races. I love the changes to limit the subraces being made, and for the last 6 to 8 months there has not been a single monsterous race approved.

I think you are taking the one here and there that you are see and streching it a bit.

Here is the link, it has been 6 to 7 months roughly (post is dated at the end of august).

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29613&posts=37&start=1

Jearick Hgar · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2007, 06:04:29 pm »

er... i've seen two goblins, an orc and one ogre in the past week. like is aid i'm glad that they are disabled as well. but i don't think that they shoudl be able to runt hrough the town without at least the guard trying to atack them or something. there is no way the gate guards would let them through.

Drizzlin · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2007, 06:10:26 pm »

Well again, 3 is hardly tons =P Especially when you have seen how many of the stardard races within that week?

Jearick Hgar · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2007, 06:27:13 pm »

i really don't care how many there are. it's the fact that they are running around the cities, people who go out and kill their kind all day come back and tell tath "now now, don't kill him, he's a player" when really my char wouldn't thinkt wice abuot killing them.

Witch Hunter · « **Reply #5 on:** February 22, 2007, 07:09:38 pm »

I agree, it's getting a bit absurd - you just returned from a succesful expedition in the grey peaks and BAM you see an ogre in town.. duh.

Pen N Popper · « **Reply #6 on:** February 22, 2007, 07:20:28 pm »

I think the "ogre" you are seeing is a halfgiant that has chosen not to use the updated phenotype. All halfgiants used to look like ogres before the wondrousness of the team's magicy fingers.

Drizzlin · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2007, 07:46:47 pm »

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Pen N Popper - 2/22/2007 7:20 PM

I think the "ogre" you are seeing is a halfgiant that has chosen not to use the updated phenotype. All halfgiants used to look like ogres before the wondrousness of the team's magicy fingers.

Yeah that is the other point i'm getting at, I don't want say "you are wrong" but I am someone who looks for the monster races because I have one, and I can not even recall the last ogre I have seen on. I have only ever seen one half ogre.

Laldiien · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2007, 08:00:38 pm »

Yes, I agree.Trolls are bad. Trolls make things bad. Trolls are a scourge and should be removed as quickly as possible, asthey serve no useful purpose. Trolls are rarely cogent and have poor communication skills. Trolls should not be allowed to multiply.
Thank you for bringing this up.

Polak76 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2007, 08:05:15 pm »

I agree to an extent though this tends to get repetative as it counts for all stereotypical enemy subraces. I think in essence people that want to make a naughty subrace should seriously contemplate whether they can tolerate being harrassed and lonely most of the time. If they can't handle this then it probably would be best they do not make one at all. Additionally it should be the job of all others to make life extremely difficult for these type of characters in the game. Therefore if they succeed in perserverance, it will earn them a place in society and possibly a few rare friendships.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2007, 08:15:27 pm »

I'd agree to that clause. Be harder if you were a half-giant, but... *Grins.* We can assume the halves aren't automatically evil, right?

Not like the Drow. Those're all bad.

Drizzlin · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2007, 09:55:09 pm »

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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/22/2007 8:15 PM

I'd agree to that clause. Be harder if you were a half-giant, but... *Grins.* We can assume the halves aren't automatically evil, right?

Not like the Drow. Those're all bad.

If you read about half giants, they are accepted by their humans halves. Of all the half-whatevers, the halfgiants have it the easiest if they choose to remain with humans rather than giants.

Faldred · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:15:04 am »

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Drizzlin - 2/23/2007 12:55 AM
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Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/22/2007 8:15 PM I'd agree to that clause. Be harder if you were a half-giant, but... *Grins.* We can assume the halves aren't automatically evil, right? Not like the Drow. Those're all bad.
If you read about half giants, they are accepted by their humans halves. Of all the half-whatevers, the halfgiants have it the easiest if they choose to remain with humans rather than giants.

Well, I think half-elves are more accepted actually, at least among humans. I would expect that of the "half" races (only four that I know of), from the racial descriptions on LORE, the general order, from most- to least-accepted is:[list=1]Half-elves
Half-giants
(tie) Half-orcs & Half-ogres
[/list] Of course, this is based on predominantly human settlements. For example, some dwarves seem ill-disposed toward half-giants, even a half-giant who follows, say, Vorax. Note that LORE specifically says on these races (the half-orc description says nothing about race relations):

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They [half-elves] are welcomed by both of their parental races, but they never fully assimilate into one race or the other due to the boundaries imposed by their mixed heritage. ... Half Giants have no lands of their own. They are usually widely accepted among humans. ... Half Ogres do not have land of their own, they’re pretty tolerated in human communities, where most of them do heavy manual labor or act as mercenaries. Other races despise them because of their ogrish ancestry.

Niles09 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:26:37 am »

These posts seriously gonna stop.

Laldiien · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:48:38 am »

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Niles09 - 2/23/2007 8:26 AM These posts seriously gonna stop.

Sadly, not likely.
All Toranites and Aeridinites should band together and go after those who practice topic necomancy. This particular gem has been raised, debated, left for dead, raised, killed, raised, and is now shuffling about aimlessly. I am giving serious thought to doing a search and compiling a list of all threads that are routinely brought up and making a FAQ. Would save everyone heaps of time.

Honora · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2007, 05:53:28 am »

I have an opinion on this, as someone playing a "monsterous" race.

There is a precendent for tolerance as well. Since the beginning of Layo, the have been a percentage of characters who are "monsterous". I have in my one year here seen a handful of orcs, maybe a dozen half-orcs, a few goblins, a few drow (most of whom keep themselves hidden under cowls), and numerous half-giants. Most all of these characters behave themselves in civilized towns. They bring in economy, they are seen in groups of other more accepted races, they don't cause (much) trouble.

I would think that a SINGLE orc, say, with someone to vouch for him/her, would be given the same benefit of the doubt that the others before him/her had been given; i.e. "here is an exception, we won't stone her to death".

I believe there is validation in RPing someone who would normally have difficulty fitting in...but let's not get excessive about it. RP should not, in my opinion, eclipse fun. When it becomes open season on anything that is not a human, elf, half-elf, dwarf, halfling, or gnome, then we might as well eliminate "monsterous" races altogether.

Remember, there have been half-giants, half-orcs, orcs, half-ogres, goblins, and drow who have done good things, and been recognized for them, for as long as Layo has been around.

Witch Hunter · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2007, 06:09:34 am »

Well theres the problem - too many of them do good thing.

When something goes againts its nature... well, it's very rare - you can't expect every single orc and ogre you meet in town to be good, yet they are (mostly) and it's rather annoying!

Laldiien · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2007, 06:21:02 am »

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Witch Hunter - 2/23/2007 9:09 AM Well theres the problem - too many of them do good thing. When something goes againts its nature... well, it's very rare - you can't expect every single orc and ogre you meet in town to be good, yet they are (mostly) and it's rather annoying!

Annoying to who? If you have a problem with it, stay away from them. If you want to challenge it, ask a GM to sanction PvP against them. Otherwise, all this sound and fury on the boards is just meaningless text. Do your characters shun them? Do your characters go on quests with them? You shouldn't if you feel that strongly about it.
Lead by example.

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2007, 06:23:29 am »

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Laldiien - 2/23/2007 9:21 AM
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Witch Hunter - 2/23/2007 9:09 AM Well theres the problem - too many of them do good thing. When something goes againts its nature... well, it's very rare - you can't expect every single orc and ogre you meet in town to be good, yet they are (mostly) and it's rather annoying!
Annoying to who? If you have a problem with it, stay away from them. If you want to challenge it, ask a GM to sanction PvP against them. Otherwise, all this sound and fury on the boards is just meaningless text. Do your characters shun them? Do your characters go on quests with them? You shouldn't if you feel that strongly about it.
Lead by example.

I agree entirely, Laldiien. I have yet to be challenged by anyone while speaking Infernal, or even going around without a hood on. Being a Tiefling, and an obvious Tiefling to boot, I am kind of disappointed in the fact that instead of being seen as a threat I am ignored.

Dorganath · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2007, 07:24:15 am »

One thing everyone also needs to remember, and for those of you who are new (last 9 months or so) to the world, this may be important knowledge.
The last campaign was a struggle against Sinthar Bloodstone. A dragon, who was motivated to see Bloodstone defeated once and for all, sent out a powerful call across all of Layonara to those who it thought could aid the fight in some way and tip the balance of power toward a free, living Layonara over an enslaved/dying one under the vengeful hand of Bloodstone. This call ignored considerations like race and religion, and so Drow, orcs, half-ogres and all other manner of "monstrous" races answered the call, as well as typically unfriendly members of the more accepted races (human, elf, etc.) who follow deities like Pyrtechon, Corath or Ca'Duz. Clearly, the dragon had some other insight than the average person and saw something in these odd choices that he thought would help. Among the Dragoncalled, this logic pervaded, which is to say "Oh, you must not be all bad if the dragon called you too." It's a little OOC, but the basic assumption is that all PCs that joined before Bloodstone's defeat were Dragoncalled.
Now, fast-forward to today.
No call. No "higher purpose". Nothing.
Why should someone tolerate or trust an unknown Drow/Goblin/Half-ogre/Orc in their presence? They shouldn't without some reason. The idea of "tolerance" in an age of starvation really should go out the window. However, in this transitional period, we're still operating under the parameters set by the previous campaign.
Now, I'm not advocating that people start being allowed to openly PvP others. I'm also not advocating that people hide behind the general No-PvP rules. I've seen enough abuse and pushing of the line of the latter in both directions, especially in Hlint where the area itself is explicitly no PvP, and people take advantage of that fact between making challenges/threats and casting AoE spells that have no business being cast within the confines of a town.
However, with V3 coming out, we're going to be opening PvP a bit, hoping for some maturity and discretion on the part of players without being overly burdened by procedure. And that's ultimately what's behind this whole discussion of monstrous races, is it not? Maybe not killing another PC, but rather having the freedom to RP these conflicts, coming to combat in some cases when appropriate.
Just to clarify a few things:
Do PCs need to be tolerant toward monstrous/inherently evil races? No.
Are PCs required to be hostile toward monstrous races? No.
Should monstrous race PCs expect to be treated with tolerance? No.
Should monstrous race PCs be accepted everywhere? No.
Should monstrous race PCs be attacked on-sight? Not necessarily. Keep in mind, there's big difference between being hostile toward another and jumping straight to PvP combat.
One other thing to keep in mind. Monstrous and special sub-races have been suppressed now for many in-game years. Those monstrous race PCs currently being played have quite literally been around for many (game) years, and have likely gained some degree of acceptance among many, even if your PC has not yet seen them. That they walk openly among others is one indication of this.
V3 will likely see the opening of these races once more, and new PCs of such races would not, and perhaps should not, be immediately trusted on-sight.
Let me stress one other thing:
Do not meta-game the race or any thing else about another PC that your character does not know based upon their portrait, floaty name, server status info or any other piece of information that your PC would not see.
If a disguised drow walks by, you should not look at the character's portrait, shout "DROW!!!!," draw swords and start attacking it.
Once again, as with many things, it boils down to common sense and maturity. There is no "right" reaction to monstrous races, though there is a "typical" one and that should be generally quite negative.