Points in Harloff

[Niles09]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 6/27/2006  5:43 AM  Put a reset timer on the traps.  I really, really want to see more traps and locks in Layonara. Okay, so there's three or four traps/locks in Hlint. Sure. Okay, I'll go with that - I've only found two, but hey. There's the Hlint Crypts - great for the low-level fighter, cleric, paladin... Excellent places for anyone with turn undead to flex thier class' muscles. Hlint Sewers, good for those woodsy types with animal empathy. But...  In the Crypts, Rogues are useless. The whole undead not having vital areas thing. There are no traps, no locks, and nothing to Sneak Attack. They're about as useful as a Brownie Fighter with a focus in Archery.  In the sewers, well... You can Sneak Attack, but if you HIT anything, it dies. No need for it except against our lovely Ratman.  Seeing a small XP reward for disarming a trap would be nice, too. What good is "practice" if you're not learning anything? You get XP for killing something. You get gold for killing something. How different is that from recovering a trap and getting a little bit of XP, plus the trap?  Besides, let's see some more usefulness for Improved Evasion.

[lonnarin]

I would like to see the current persistant quests and some of the merchants use the persuade skill in their conversation trees more.  Like maybe you try to buy a crafter's certification, and if you hit a persuade check of 15-20, he discounts the price a bit... or if you collect all the items for a quest and have a 2nd option to persuade more gp reward out of the NPC.  So far the only instance of this I found is Garvill's Oxen discount.  Perhaps also use some of these wandering NPCs like Fing and Erbag in the bar to drop hints about areas and current events on a successful persuade check.  One of them can leak where a good batch of hops is, another can talk about the day the dark clouds came, etc.

It would also be funny to see somebody walk up to Johan and make their bluff check... But I already HAVE brought you two of those pelts! heheh.

[Dorganath]

Niles09 - 6/27/2006  10:51 AM    exactly! Traps shouldnt be something you look around to find, but something thats just is there.

 Oh man...I'm growing pretty tired of saying this.
  There are traps available for practice by rogues in game. By definition, you have to find ALL traps. I don't really know what you mean by "something that just is there". Traps will be on doors, on chests, on sections of floor between you and a special location.
  Maybe there could be more...maybe we could improve them. A lot of maybes, but the point is that there are opportunities. Seek them out.....please.
 
 
 
  And yes.....we will be taking a look at EVERYTHING for NWN2.
 
  And lastly, please put this topic back on track.

[Niles09]

what I mean is, first I go to the sewers, one trap and a lock, then the crypts in Hlint, no traps or locks, red light cave, no traps or locks, Sielwood cave, no traps or locks, Krandor Crypts, yupii! traps and locks, but first then. All of those places should have 3 or 4 traps, though only two of them actually have a few. It shouldnt be like; "I want to go and dissable some traps, so I need to go to Storans or Krandor crypts."

[Dorganath]

Last time...
  There ARE traps and locks in Hlint that are NOT in the crypts or sewers. Likewise, similar things exist in other towns and cities all over Layonara and in varying degrees of difficulty.
  I really cannot be any clearer than that.
  Now PLEASE put this thread back on-topic.

[Niles09]

Dorganath - 6/27/2006  7:36 AM    Last time...
  There ARE traps and locks in Hlint that are NOT in the crypts or sewers.  Likewise, similar things exist in other towns and cities all over Layonara and in varying degrees of difficulty.
  I really cannot be any clearer than that.
  Now PLEASE put this thread back on-topic. 

 If you've read Stephen's post you should know why its a problem there is no traps in the crypts or sewers, and for the last time its not enough every tree dungeon has one or two traps and this thread is on-topic, making this game a better experience.

[Harlas Ravelkione]

Seriously. Niles09, how many dungeons have you visited? You are speaking of the Hlint sewer and the crypts? Those 2 only? Explore and you will find your traps and locked doors.

Besides, it does not make sense that there are traps in some dungeons. Why would there be traps in the Hlint sewer or the crypts? The crypts are basically an extension of the graveyard and are still being maintained and used by people. The same goes for the sewer. Why would someone place traps in there? There is nothing to guard or keep safe - no reason to block people from entering. And the undead or wererats would not set traps, would they.

So let us move on from this subject. Talk to people and you'll learn that there are traps out there. Some nasty ones at that.

[darkstorme]

Rule #1, Niles - don't antagonize the DM.  Especially one who puts as much time into Layo development as Dorganath.

Second, since this has become a small fixation, I've created a Development thread that deals with the whole trap issue.  That'll hopefully get this thread back on topic, while allowing this interesting topic to continue in its proper place.

[Dorganath]

darkstorme - 6/27/2006  3:10 PM   Rule #1, Niles - don't antagonize the DM.  Especially one who puts as much time into Layo development as Dorganath.

 As much as I appreciate your support, this comment does sort of perpetuate the idea that players should fear retribution from GMs, which is untrue and undesired. It's ironically one of the points in Harloff's post and something we really need to move away from.
  I believe there was some barrier there which we could not get over, be it a barrier of language or understanding. In either case, what is being requested is, at least in some manner, already in the game. Some people may not ultimately agree with the way it has been implemented or the quantity and/or placement of the challenges, but they are there and have been there for a very long time.

[darkstorme]

My apologies - it was not meant as perpetuation of the stereotype, more along the lines of "request, don't attack".  And certainly, while no GM would use "grudge monsters" on Layo, the way to get a developer to look at your idea is not to keep hammering it into them.