Reality to what extent in a fantasy realm?

[Guardian 452]

I read some posts here and there lately that made me want to reply to them... but it was not the right thing to do so I'm going to rant here a bit.

We all know this is a Fantasy world where not every rule of our world should apply. I think both sides of this world (Players and Staff) need to keep this in the back of their minds.

If you want the reality you strive for then more changes need to be made across the entire world, Not just to the people trying to creat new characters in it. I read in a post about someones horse not being able to support the character in full armor and garb. Well thats fine and dandy... but why then do we kill fairies that have Halberds... or Plate armor? Snakes that have swallowed hundreds of coins? See where im going here? Why not just accept that in this realm things work just a bit differently horses can carry more than IRL in said example.

I know this isnt my world, but I have a voice in it (just as everyone else here does). And on this issue of using our world rules and applying them to things in a fantasy world it tends to urk me sometimes. Just cut some slack I think within reason of course.

*EDIT* If you wish to be so strict with horses I reccomend a look at the ones in game. How can they support a person carrying hundreds of pounds sometimes over a thousand pounds? Can a real horse do this?

I am not trying to attack anyone person, or point fingers. I just wanted to say my peace.

G-452

[Acacea]

The problem arises when someone confuses realism with believability. Believability is central to any world, fantasy or no, because it is directly tied to immersion. Whether or not it is realistic is irrelevant.

There are things that make little enough sense as to ruin the effect of a well-envisioned fantasy world, but could easily be altered not with realism but by adding more fantasy elements that are simply well thought out. People calling for explanations are not always asking for earth-rules, but just some reason to use in roleplay.

Likewise, it is unfortunate that others get anchored in the concept of a dark ages setting and all of its demands. This is supposed to be an entire world - not all of it is going to be medieval europe, and even the areas that are have strange and extraordinary things tossed into them. Like, you know, magic.

I just wanted to say that it is not "realism vs fantasy," which is an old forum divide.

[Rowana]

There is a such thing as realistic fantasy where magic and physics exist side by side and only rarely have to exert a trump card over one another. Realistic fantasy is very easy to understand and work with when players and GMs a like are trying to get deep into the characters and tactics that might be used in any given quest situation.

In a fantasy world where players try to push in real world engineering and physics into many quest situations or get angry/upset because things don't make sense in 'because we said so' sort of way, and demand that things make sense to them it's pretty much a no brainer that some realism be maintained to the world so that there is a common baseline for what is and is not possible for every individual in the community GM or player alike.

~row

[ycleption]

To the extent this was directed at the specific example of the horses, I would just like to point out that the story was approved, despite the possible unrealism of the situation.

Now, I could write a long rambling essay about the subject, because I do think that there are a lot of interesting implications about how fantastic our fantasy worlds are...but suffice it to say that in my personal opinion, there does need to be a balance. Too much non-reality and suspension of disbelief becomes impossible, the world loses coherence, and characters can get away with anything. Too much hard-line insistence on "reality" (whatever that might mean for you), and the world becomes boring.

[lonnarin]

The gold and objects found on the ritters aren't necessarily on the dead bodies.  The could simply be the remains of other things those monsters killed nearby, like the piles of bones outside a dragon's lair or a cocoon encased body in a spider cave.

As for the horses, Bjorn doesn't use one because he's too fat with way too much gear on.  It's a personal RP preference of mine.  Of course, in a fantasy world there could always be dire horses, or +1 STR enhancing alexandrite nd gold horseshoes!

[Guardian 452]

Had a big post going and I just deleted it.

I am not asking for Reality to be thrown out the window, nor am I saying that just because someone can make a good story that whatever they say should be allowed. Y'all are right it is about balance, and not knitpicking the small stuff. I just personally think that a bit too much small stuff knitpicking is happening.

G-452


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[Rowana]

Where's that line for you G? Where's that line for anyone? I'm certain that if everyone answered that question it would be a wide range of answers.

There's a lot of harping about the 'nitpicking' that goes on but there's also a strong voice of people who are calling out for stronger restrictions, heavier leaning of reality, full definition to every minutia of detail. The various teams really are trying to strike a balance that mostly pleases, despite not being able to please everyone.

It would be a kindness if the community helped us with cooperation and understanding that Layonara is probably not going to be perfect in every way for everyone. (As much as we would love to tout such a thing!) This is part of the reason we value having so many contributors with so many different views, because it's very possible that we'll cover more play styles that way. Regardless, there's a mean/medium/balance that has to be maintained across the whole server for fairness and physics being "earth like" is one of those things we have chosen to maintain for equality across the board.

~row

[jrizz]

I agree that it is important to have a base line for world physics. Also to avoid undue complexity it is best to choose "earth like". But as players (and GMs) we have to accept that it is "earth like" with exceptions/latitudes. There are many examples of those exceptions, have you ever tried to carry three large weapons, a bow, and arrows all at the ready? How about running 500 miles? In light of limited mechanics and promoting fun playability the Layo "earth like" physics has to be and is suspended often.

If we tried to adhere any stronger to real earth physics we would endanger the fun and playability of Layo. I think, in terms of world physics, we have a decent balance.

[Dorganath]

I'd just like to add a bit to the "other side of the coin" here...

The various "Suggestions" forums are filled with things that use real-world examples as the justification for the suggestion. They range anywhere from the quantities and ingredients for crafting to having boat travel take a more realistic amount of time.

So putting the lore, design and balancing decisions of the various teams aside for a moment, this Community even differs greatly in terms of what level of realism would be desirable and/or burdensome.

As far as what we have at the moment, the primary factors that make up our mix of realism and fantasy are what is reasonable, balanced and practical to implement.  What ends up being the case more often than not is something generally middle of the road that is grounded in reality and real-world physics (because we understand these things implicitly) but with enough wiggle-room to be fun.

Still, everything should make sense in a way, because when an alternate reality is too alien to our norms of perception, it causes a problem with immersion.

As if to reinforce the point, I have spoke to people here who have difficulty role playing magic users (Wizards and Sorcerers most prominently) because the concept of magic is somewhat difficult for the players. "How can I RP it when I don't know what it can do/how it works?" is an example of how it can be difficult when something is too unrealistic based on our real-world understandings.

So yeah, it goes in both directions and while personal preferences and opinions will vary, the best for everyone is a mix and a balance, and when in doubt, err on the side of practical and reasonable.