Removing ECDQ's

[Harloff]

From my point of view the DM-team is bleeding, people are leaving the team quite often, taking breaks, stop doing CDQ/ECDQ etc.. Which as I see it is caused by a too great workload due to CDQ's and ECDQ's. And at the moment I think there are more than 40 level 20 characters on the server, either waiting for a ECDQ at the moment or waiting for the 8 or 12 months to pass so that they can get a ECDQ. And the number of players at level 20 raises each month. This means that the number of people waiting for a ECDQ will just increase steadily from now on.

In order to solve this problem i suggest to remove ECDQ's all together, but keeping the approval procedure of epic characters. so an so many month, doing an impact, etc.. Perhaps replacing it by an optional CDQ from which the player can get an item, an abilety or ... (max 2 or 3 sessions). Furthemore, I suggest to set a max of 1 CDQ / 10 levels, removing the general preassure on the team.

NOTE: This is not meant as my way to push the team to do what I want, or to become epic easily myself. But I think the team has way to much work, and this is my way of giving them my full support to take what I see as necessary actions in order to reduce their workload.

[Eight-Bit]

I think they serve an important purpose. The DMs who run an ECDQ or CDQ are only spending time they would on a normal quest that would not aid in entirely too much development, to something that builds on the foundation of a character. They both should remain, as they've both been a part of Layonara for quite some time.

[miltonyorkcastle]

The breaks are scheduled, and not that many are leaving.  And as for how many level 20's there are, that's fine.  Becoming epic is, and should be, an enourmous event.  It should be a hundred times harder to attain than even the work it took to get to 20th.  Not only does an ECDQ represent part of this, but it is the surest test to discover whether or not the character is really ready to become epic.  It's better that we have a hundred level 20's and ten Epics than a 100 Epics who weren't really ready to have the rank and responsibility of "Epic."

[Acacea]

Totally disagree with removing them; "going epic" is a big deal and something specific to -your- character that is involved with shaking the world, the reason for the "epic" status. Even after approval for the opportunity to be epic, there is still the chance of failure, and I think that is very, very important.

I haven't even had a character development quest because I haven't really had any issues requiring GM intervention outside of normal quests. But a lot of step ups in character progress need the CDQs for the same pass/fail reason, whether to take a complex prestige class, or to move up in station in say, the church, besides just having it be tied to level. You can't significantly move up in station in whatever thing you are in through private messages, and you can't talk to the NPCs and answer for them.

I think they're an important part of the world, just ones that get spammed with "I want to go with my friends to x location, can you make a quest out of that?"

It's not the concept that is at fault in those situations.

[Dorganath]

Keep in mind a couple things:
  1) The rules have changed on ECDQs and CDQs in general regarding length and # of sessions.
  2) The rolling vacations for the GM team are coming to an end in the near future.
  The purpose of the ECDQ is that it denotes an exceptional point in a character's life. Removing the ECDQ process makes being epic "just another level with cool feats"...and that's really not what it's all about.

[Varka]

*looks around - gets ready to run - clears his throat and yells*

BRING BACK XP-PENALTIESSSSSSS!!!.... *a flying rocks smaches into varkas face and he falls*

*Before pasing out varka manages to say one thing though*.... I told you so... (couldnt find the post about xp-pen. what a shame)  

*mumbles while pasted out* But maybe there be a..a...a rea....*failed consitution check 2. time*

[xXDenizeNXx]

Simple solutiom could also be to get more gm's, simply a matter of supply and demand.

[Dorganath]

xXDenizeNXx - 4/27/2006  10:44 AM  Simple solutiom could also be to get more gm's, simply a matter of supply and demand.

 heh....
  http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25233&posts=1&start=1

[miltonyorkcastle]

More GM's wouldn't solve the "problem" anytime soon, though, as it's my understanding it takes more time and extra training to become and "ECDQable DM."

[Dorganath]

miltonyorkcastle - 4/27/2006  10:55 AM  More GM's wouldn't solve the "problem" anytime soon, though, as it's my understanding it takes more time and extra training to become and "ECDQable DM."

 You are correct in that, though more GMs would allow those older GMs who are comfortable enough and ready to run ECDQs to have more time/opportunity for such things. Eventually the newer GMs will gain confidence, etc. It's not so much a matter of training as it is comfort level, ability and other such factors
  Adding GMs is not a solution in and of itself though.

[Chuckles_McChuck]

well now that the soul mother is back I doubt people will be as risky as they were before

[Blackguy]

LFFF - 4/27/2006  6:04 PM  well now that the soul mother is back I doubt people will be as risky as they were before

 I can think of one that will, still wanna take that bet?

[miltonyorkcastle]

*laughs at Blackguy's remark*

[Chuckles_McChuck]

well since I'll be taking your ECDQ spot if you die *its the midst of battle and Gotak charges into the army of drow... suddenly Lia eats a banana and tosses the peel in Gotaks path*

[Force_of_Will_]

LOL ,Poor Gotak.
Im glad the Soulmother is back.Now they need to bring back the xp loss maybe 2%loss.
The newer players have no fear of death.
As for ECDQs I think keep them in.Its a milestone in the Characters life.
I know the GM I picked to do my ECDQ is very busy,but it will be worth the wait.

[Ar7]

The problem is not in ECDQs, the problem is that it is too easy to get to 20. The levels that cause the most trouble are 12-20, as these go by, as strange as it may be, faster than 9-12, and a lot faster at that. That is the reason why there are so many level twenties who have to wait for months to even apply. This happens because during levels 12-20 a person just has so many creatures (entire central) that give a lot of Xp.

If it was in my power I would do the following

- Bring back the Xp penalty - this is what makes people careful. The prospect of a death token never scares anybody, unless they already have atleast 8. Prove of this is Layonara V1 and how adventuring changed after V2 came in.

- Remove the need of a CDQ while taking a prestige class, I believe these are the primary reason DMs are swamped. To counter the effect of such an action and still make the prestige classes special, have a character require a good (stress this) development thread or as an alternative, many DMs who have witnessed good RP in the direction of a prestige class.

- Make CDQs even harder to apply for, something really major in a character's life

- If this doesn't help, then lower the Xp from creatures and quests. These are the last and most drastic measures. Though lowering the amount of Xp from quest is reasonable, as there are a lot more quests ran these days, which further increases the speed of leveling.

*takes a huge iron shield and puts infront of himself incase any stones fly his way*

[Pibemanden]

I was just about to suggest something like Ar7 did. Lower the xp from kills at least, killing millions of monsters mindlesly shouldn't grant people epic status(I hope I am not stepping on someone here if I do it isn't intentional). What should give epic status is solving problems getting a name through your actions and developing your character.
And the xp-penalty, I am all for it... The only problem might be that people will get afraid at control their character from a OOC perspective, not picking fights because the might die. But if people rp it well I think it should get back in game.

[Frendh]

The lack of time for holding ECDQs is working as a chokepoint. I don't mind
that.

I disagree with Pibemanden "killing millions of monsters mindlesly shouldn't
grant people epic status". It's the people with a lot of free time who get
to lvl 20 _seemingly_ fast. The ECDQ prevents just that, becoming epic
with monster bashing only. So if you lower the xp those who like to play
only a few hours a week will take a big hit.

Is there a need for CDQ on PrC? Thought it was still one of two options.
The second option being a good Dev Thread.

[Harloff]

I am sure that the thing about level 9-12 being harder to get than level 13-20 is caused by the exp reqirements and the exp limit. Meaning that a level 9 and a level 14 have the same exp req. but when a level 9 kill a giant on central he will get less exp for the kill than the level 14 because of the exp. limit. Besides that he will of course have a much more difficult task in killing the giant than the high level and thus can't kill as many per hour as a level 14.

In the end I believe it boils down to the fact that the system is build around an increasing level requirement to gain a level but on layo we have a flat level requirement.

[Faldred]

Frendh - 4/27/2006  1:46 PM
Is there a need for CDQ on PrC? Thought it was still one of two options.
The second option being a good Dev Thread.

I believe that depends on the specific PrC.