Rent for player housing in V3?

[lunchboxkilla]

Ok I'm stepping into the this little squall....

Ideas are what could kill modding. If the dev team starts listing to the people they end up making shoddy games, Look at tribes 3, NWN 2. Duke nukem forever, Starcraft ghost, and so on.
You guys want realism yet you don't. from other posts you have stated that ladies of the night shouldn't be in lay due to the age rating yet we want things like taxes?

I think the Tax system is gonna be over bearing on an already unstable system.. And just by the numerous things that this servers are taking into account yeah....
 House are a win win situation, so what? I'm pretty sure every player that owns a house must of crafted, killed, quested, and every thing under the sun to gt a home and now because they play once in a great while have no gold in the bank lose it to some little script line in the system that say he has no gold to keep the home that he fought tooth and Nail to get?... Why can we leave it at the one little place your char doesn't have to worry about? his little piece of haven from the grind of life, killing and bashing things?


"Ya want realism? Go out side", Thats what i said when I was modding tribes 2 games. I for one am not for the tax thing seeing my char is half retired, I just got enough gold in the bank to get food and the odd item if it comes by...


One final question... What would happen if say.... you lost your internet for a few months...char bankrupt and you have gathered oh, items that were given to ya by a dm or you were gathering for crating (IE mithril and emeralds and such) and because of this you lost your home to taxes?

It isn't fair to players that have Real life things to do that are, gods yes i am saying it, More important than layo

[darkstorme]

lunchboxkilla - 3/5/2007  3:17 AM
One final question... What would happen if say.... you lost your internet for a few months...char bankrupt and you have gathered oh, items that were given to ya by a dm or you were gathering for crating (IE mithril and emeralds and such) and because of this you lost your home to taxes?

It isn't fair to players that have Real life things to do that are, gods yes i am saying it, More important than layo

More important than Layo?  Gasp!  Horror!  (Actually, this is my break from homework which is More Important Than Etc.)  Regardless, allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment and suggest a solution to the problem you suggested.

Tack a 6-month "deposit" onto the initial price of the house.  If there's no auto-deduct-from-bank-account, and payments are made at the door, if you miss a payment, it is deducted from your six months, and you make it up at your next payment.  That way, you always have a six-month buffer.  If your house is idle for six months... it'd get repossessed anyway under the current server rules.  (This is why there would be a limit of six months on the buffer - no more.)

Again, I don't know that I'm necessarily for taxation... but a 1% monthly tax (or 7% in Prantz, to finance all those guards) on the purchase value of the house ought not to be unreasonable, and would provide yet another money sink.  As with most leftist views, I'm sure mine will change as soon as I have some money to spend on a house... but for the time being, it does seem a worthwhile idea.  (After all, I rent.  I'm ALREADY paying around 1% the price of a house/month.)

[Honora]

*Points upward, to the results of this poll that has resurfaced every so often*

The people have spoken.

[owatonnahacker]

If the point is a money sink, then we could have port taxes.  I'm going from Milstone to Rilara.  When I land in Rilara (or leave Milstone) I would pay a tax on whatever I am carrying.  So, for example if I had a +1 broadsword, I would have to pay a tax of something like 5 true. (This may or may not be the proper scaling, that would have to be decided on the GM side) But if people wanted to, they could go thru a Freeport.  no taxes, but a city of lawlessness. (and possibly have their stuff stolen or them killed) A lot of large cities (in other campaign worlds) have a freeport. (e.g. Waterdeep/F.R.)

[owatonnahacker]

Of course, *pointing to my previous post* a freeport, might be an excellent way for lawful characters to gain experience... clean out the port and make it generate revenue.... without masacreing the innocent folk who live there.

[Nibor21]

My only real issue about taxes is that really penalises those players that are intermittent players.

For the hard-core Layo nuts who are on every day, taxes will be easy to cope with. But for the players who maybe do a total of 5 hours a month it will make them back off. Now you could record log on and log off times and only charge someone taxes every time thay have been on for X hours. But then that is open to abuse.

One of the great things about Layo is the diversity of people and that there is always especially at the weekends new friends to make. And I suspect the intermittent players make up a substantial percentage of the colourful population of Layonara. Lets not penalise these people.

[Nibor21]

Honora - 3/4/2007  11:17 AM

*Points upward, to the results of this poll that has resurfaced every so often*

The people have spoken.

If the governments in RL put that poll up they would get exactly the same result - and yet they never decide to do away with taxes. Why is that?

[Omega_mnm]

Personally, I think people just don't want to pay rent because they don't want to worry about losing their house, and they don't want to waste their money.

I'm all for paying rent. I think this will help houses open up more, and I think it will add to the realism. Not to mention.. it's just foolish expect a strong economy, when you aren't willing to pay for it.

[Honora]

"If the governments in RL put that poll up they would get exactly the same result - and yet they never decide to do away with taxes. Why is that?"

Because it's RL and in RL we absolutely need firefighters, police, clean water, schools, and other things that didn't have any unified governmental representation in a time frame such as Layo?

A poll was taken, and the players of this game said by a wide margin, NO.  Let democracy work as intended somewhere.

[Nibor21]

Honora - 3/4/2007  4:11 PM

Let democracy work as intended somewhere.

*grins* Remember Layonara is a Democracy. One Man. One Vote. It just so happens that that man is Leanthar and it his vote  

[DMOE]

Omega_mnm - 3/5/2007  4:06 PM  Personally, I think people just don't want to pay rent because they don't want to worry about losing their house, and they don't want to waste their money.  I'm all for paying rent. I think this will help houses open up more, and I think it will add to the realism. Not to mention.. it's just foolish expect a strong economy, when you aren't willing to pay for it.

 No....I don't want to pay rent because I don't want to have my playing style dictated to me by HAVING to go bash to pay a tax.

[LordCove]

lunchboxkilla - 3/5/2007  8:17 AM


You guys want realism yet you don't. from other posts you have stated that ladies of the night shouldn't be in lay due to the age rating yet we want things like taxes?

I think the Tax system is gonna be over bearing on an already unstable system.. And just by the numerous things that this servers are taking into account yeah....
 House are a win win situation, so what? I'm pretty sure every player that owns a house must of crafted, killed, quested, and every thing under the sun to gt a home and now because they play once in a great while have no gold in the bank lose it to some little script line in the system that say he has no gold to keep the home that he fought tooth and Nail to get?..

Took the words out my mouth!  

[jrizz]

The vote already spoke for what the community thinks. Even if you put all the yes votes together you still dont even have half of the no votes. The people have spoken LOL

[merlin34baseball]

Wait... I just remembered something...
  When I bought my house the cost was like 115k. When I went to buy it they (the real estate agent) tacked on like 8k worth of taxes so my house really cost around 123k. Ha, In my mind I already payed the taxes...

[Dorganath]

That was insurance.

[Gulnyr]

lunchboxkilla - 3/5/2007  3:17 AM
I'm pretty sure every player that owns a house must of crafted, killed, quested, and every thing under the sun to gt a home and now because they play once in a great while have no gold in the bank lose it to some little script line in the system that say he has no gold to keep the home that he fought tooth and Nail to get?

How many people share this house?  This is an important question because a character who is only around "once in a great while" has no business hoarding a house that others could be using.  That would be an example of having no respect for other players.  If the house is in use by several active characters, that's fine, but if the house is only used by one or two characters now and then (if ever), you should really consider selling it.  

Why can we leave it at the one little place your char doesn't have to worry about? his little piece of haven from the grind of life, killing and bashing things?

If that's the only place you have as a sanctuary from bashing and killing, then you can surely afford a small tax from all the looting you've been doing.

"Ya want realism? Go out side"

I don't really want realism. I want realistic.  Realistically, houses, armor, and weapons require maintenance, governments collect taxes one way or another (and often one way and another), and all manner of other things have a continual cost associated with them.  Nothing is completely good.  Everything is a trade-off of some sort.  It makes decisions matter and adds substance to the RP.

It would be impractical to try to add trade-offs to everything in-game, but we don't have trade-offs on much of anything right now.  That's a major reason why the economy is so screwy.  A happy, shiny world with no trade-offs is an "I win" button, which is stagnant and boring.  

One final question... What would happen if say.... you lost your internet for a few months...char bankrupt and you have gathered oh, items that were given to ya by a dm or you were gathering for crating (IE mithril and emeralds and such) and because of this you lost your home to taxes?

This could happen on any house clean-up, whether there are taxes or not.  If a character hasn't been around and no one has heard from the player, the house can be reclaimed by the team and put back on the market.  In other words, this scenario is already possible; taxes wouldn't necessarily affect it.


I ask you to honestly consider what I'm saying here.  Did you get a house to use, or did you just want to play The Sims for a while, then have a place to keep some crates?  Do you ever really use your character's house for anything but storage?  When you log in, does he 'wake up' at home?  Does she hang around the house with friends, or is she out in the town square or off in the countryside somewhere?  If the house is just a big storage crate, do you really need one with your character's name on it?  Why not share with several other people?  

If you just want a storage area, get together with five other players who want the same thing and buy just one house.  Houses are big enough inside for six people's crates, unless they just happen to keep everything they come across for some strange reason.  Some houses are probably spacious enough for ten people's crates.  Not only would this free up houses for more players and characters, but the cost of the house would be much easier on each bank account, and any reasonable tax split multiple ways would be nearly nothing.  On top of that, the likelihood of all the residents disappearing for several months simultaneously is very slim, so the house would be unlikely to be repossessed ever.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Gulnyr - 3/5/2007  3:04 PM
I don't really want realism. I want realistic.  Realistically, houses, armor, and weapons require maintenance, governments collect taxes one way or another (and often one way and another), and all manner of other things have a continual cost associated with them.  Nothing is completely good.  Everything is a trade-off of some sort.  It makes decisions matter and adds substance to the RP.

It would be impractical to try to add trade-offs to everything in-game, but we don't have trade-offs on much of anything right now.  That's a major reason why the economy is so screwy.  A happy, shiny world with no trade-offs is an "I win" button, which is stagnant and boring.

Right on.

[Ioskeha]

DMOE - 3/5/2007  8:59 AM  No....I don't want to pay rent because I don't want to have my playing style dictated to me by HAVING to go bash to pay a tax.

I couldn't agree with this statement anymore then I already do.  Not everyone spends all their time out on a bashing trip.. some PCs rarely go out and adventure at all.  My PC that is co-owner of a house falls into this group.  I'm lucky if I can earn 2,000 in gold per real time month with this PC.  One of the major reasons why I agreed to go co-ownership on a house was the fact that after buying it no other type of payment was needed, becides buying placeables.
   
  I've read a few times in this thread that putting taxes would be a great way to drain gold from the game.  I don't agree.  We already have a great system.  Temple Donations.  If your PC has more gold then they'll ever need, then donate all if it and only keep what your PC will need to survive.  Now someone will come along and say, 'but my PC doesn't follow a god/ess', well that is fine.  They can still donate to a cause.  Anonymously as well.  I can't remember who or what church was doing this, but not long ago there was one that was taking donation to help feed/cloth orphans.  One of my own PCs that doesn't follow a diety made a donation.  He didn't have it to spare, but thought that he had it better then these orphans.  And he's not even a good aligned PC either.  Why donate you might ask?  He felt sorry for the childern.  
   
  People buy homes all the time and not live in them.  Some people may buy them for extra storage, some for a second place to live a few weeks per year, and some people buy more then one house to make some money.  Not everyone that buys a house on the server should feel forced to live in them.  Everyone has their own reasons, and they are just as valid as those that buy them so their PCs have a place to live.