Shifting Drow of the 7th House

[kenty191]

I recently came across a character submission for a character named Ayreon. The submission detailed the fall of a house of drow known as the 7th house and Leanthar seemed to show some level of interest in this background, and requested more detailed information.

The thread can be found here: http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=14961&posts=7&mid=87864&highlight=ayreon&highlightmode=1&action=search#M87864

The idea of shifting drow, so as not to attract unwanted attention is very interesting to me and I would be keen to hear more of this background, perhaps from the player who created Ayreon.

More can be found on the house here in Ayreon's character dev thread: http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15033&posts=6#M92522


Also I was wandering whether it would be acceptable, once I have obtained as much detail on the history of this group, to create my own shifting drow and use the background and incorporate it into my own characters bio, should I make one, and be accepted.

Thanks

[Leanthar]

I don't know about the 'shifting drow' thing perse... what I do not mind is players coming up with houses, organizations etc. in a well written and thought out manner and submitting them to EdTheKet. But with the absolute understanding that nothing is final (in any way) until both he and I have bought off on it. Minor things are okay, but the major stuff has to get approved and it has to fit within the world.

Now, with all of that said...the major problem we have had for four years is that xyz player comes up with something and thinks its cool (and it may be) and then either:
1) Doesn't submit it and just RP's it and we have to tell people no, that it doesn't fit or whatever etc. A few then have gotten upset and quit the world. Their choice so no problem, but it is a concern.
2) They submit it and it doesn't fit and we say no to it in its entirety. See #1 above.
3) They submit it and we ask for certain things to be changed and adjusted and they say no. See #1 above.
4) They continue to submit stuff and we continue to say no because what they are doing is not fitting within the world. Said player(s) then get upset and see #1 above.
5) They submit it and we ask for certain things to be changed and it happens. At that point it goes in to the handbook/lore/history and the player can play it. With the absolute understanding that it belongs to Layonara and not the players.

Anyways...I don't mind opening things up like this but it takes maturity (not saying you don't have it--just stating things that have happened before) and respect as well as understanding of the process and results.

[kenty191]

I see, so basically IF this house backstory ever becomes part of the lore of Layonara, then it will be open for other characters I presume. Much like the Path of Elemental Balance and so on.

But I assume that means no for the time being as it has not become a part of recognised lore?

I understand this completely if this is the case. I was curious though, as the character concept itself seems very unusual and not often played.

Just out of further curiosity, is this house and its backstory in the process of world recognition that you mention? I have noticed the whole topic seems to have been discussed a while back (both the submission and the dev thread).

(edit) On a side note it just occured to me, is it still perfectly feasable to create a shifting drow based upon current layonara lore and the information already written about the drow of this world.

Thanks

[ItalianDDog]

Interesting bio.. well written.. the thread as well. However I personally dont think this is a good idea.. I know my opinion dont matter. But something like this could evolve and ruin Layo.. it is a Great RP community with great people. I mean come on..  the Ayeon character is a Drow druid first off...   That already goes 300% against everything a Drow should stand for...  we already have good aligned drow running all over. I mean there was what? One? maybe two good aligned drow ever written about...    If shifting drow are to be allowed... why should some races even have class restrictions? Drow are overpowered as it is with their Spell resistance. Imagine an epic dragon build with that SR? especially in this low magic world.. Terribly overpowered. Anyway just my two cents.. not that it matters. Im at work and in a bit of a bad mood so sorry if I come off wrong. But you have to at least see where Im coming from a little bit? oh and one more thing.. we also have male drow clerics running around. Isnt it my understanding that only females are granted this power...  anyway..

like i said dont take it the wrong way.

[lonnarin]

I remember running that CDQ for Ayreon.  Good times!  If you decide on becoming a shifting drow, beware the black oozes that form into monsters and try to hunt you...  The gnomish transmuter remembers the fall of Spellgard well.  If you feel an itch like you're being alchemically transformed into a drider, take two dispels and call me in the morning!  

More informtion about the 7th House can be found in the Lyonara Handbook on pages 325-327

[Dorganath]

@ItalianDDog...
  One thing that should be clarified is that Drow on Layonara are slightly different from those in FR or other D&D settings. The primary distinction is perhaps that in drow society both male and female drow may be members of the clergy. There are two Drow gods: Vierdri'ira (female) and Baraeon Ca'Duz (male). Prior to the ascension of Ca'Duz to godhood by Pyrtechon, there were both male and female clergy among the ranks of Vierdri'ira. At some point after that, the split pretty much went down gender lines, with the Ca'Duzite clergy ousting (read: killing) the females and the Vierdri'irite clergy doing the same with the males. And that's pretty much how it remains today.
  I'm pretty sure this is all in the handbook and/or write-ups for the drow deities.

[kenty191]

In that case it seems the 7th house is already a part of recognised layonara lore, as it is indeed in the handbook. Is this the case?

[Ayreon]

As the creator of the 7th house...

it was approved by L and edtheket almost a year ago and can be found in the handbook.

Btw, Lonnarin runs really cool CDQs...when he starts GMing again---get him to run one for you! (that goes to everyone)

DDog, I think everything you said is fair. In fact I've probably written about 4 'essay' (more like uber long forum rants) on how there are too many good drow, as there were TONS in Hlint at one point. Also, everyone tended to like them and showed no recognition of the fact that they are from one of the most terrible known races. Some people agreed, and L decided to close submissions on drow for awhile.

Keep in mind, it should be equally ridiculous to have a drow ranger. I wanted an oddball character, so I made Ayreon close to a year ago. I assume you wanted an oddball character as well by first choosing a drow, but also making him a ranger.

Druids also have the capability to be evil, as well. So it's not exactly true that it's against what a drow should stand for. We're not allowed to make characters in line with what drow stand for, regardless.

Also, the Layo handbook says that there are druids in the underdark that tend to the cavernous ecosystems (with no further clarification)...I just invented one out of many ways they could exist.  

[kenty191]

Thanks for the input Ayreon, I will see about developing my ideas on this more and try and create a character around the background info in the handbook. I didnt realise this would be such a hot topic but it seems every time you mention drow things get a little heated, I dont know why.

In any case thanks everyone for your input

[Talan Va'lash]

Drow have an ECL of 2.

They have more powerful abilities/qualities, but you pay for them.  Most drow characters are played for a couple weeks then are dropped because the ECL really does make progress quite a bit more difficult.

Just to point out a trend, there's been a run on half-giant, drow, and tiefling characters in the last week or so.  If lots of those subraces continue to be requested in a short period of time they will likely be put on hold for several months.

[darkstorme]

And it strikes me as surprising that so many of the Tieflings are LG.  Really, with the alignment restrictions imposed on Layonara, Tieflings might as well be eliminated as a character class without, say, 10-15 kb worth of backstory explaining precisely why it is that someone with demonic voices in their brain and possibly (at least in some cases) an upbringing in the Hells would be chaotic good.  I'm a smidge hypocritical in writing this, of course, but I feel that Kell's backstory (that is to say, his total lack of demonic ancestry) allows him to deviate from the Tiefling standard by this degree.

However, Tieflings have to be chaotic, and if they're going to have dark voices bothering them all the time, they'd better have a good reason to be Robin Hood characters.

And I'd have to agree with the point mentionned previously - Drow are not nice people!   Unless they've had a personal relationship with a good Drow, there is no reason your chararacter would ever be more than cautiously neutral towards any Drow they met.  Tolerance shouldn't factor in when the entire race is supposedly made up of backstabbing, evil, ruthless individuals.  Similarly, Tieflings have characteristics that are reminiscient of their fiendish ancestry.  They should be dealt with, especially by new characters, with extreme trepidation, barring some previous experience.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to rant, and the fellow-feeling on the server is fantastic - it's very nice to be amongst such friendly people.  However, seeing dark elf after dark elf be greeted with open arms, and having Kell criticised for his "intolerance" when he expresses some aversion/concern upon meeting a new Drow...  it just seems unreasonable.  My two coppers.

[Xavori]

Talan Va'lash - 5/8/2006  4:15 PM

Just to point out a trend, there's been a run on half-giant, drow, and tiefling characters in the last week or so.  If lots of those subraces continue to be requested in a short period of time they will likely be put on hold for several months.

Even if the people who request them provide good stories for them?  

[DeadHead Fred]

Not sure if we're still on the original topic of this thread, but here's my 2 cp worth on a couple of topics:

If necessary, I think they should be restricted even with good backstory.  These races are supposed to be rare, so we shouldn't be seeing a lot of them around.  I'm sure that the players submitting them have a great imagination and have read thoroughly through the manual and can come up with a plausible, world-consistent story for their character.  But if we want to limit the number of them on the server (remember, they're rare - that means it should be unusual to run into one in Hlint), either the GM's have to read their bios and say "this one is better than that one or this other one, so we'll approve him and deny the others", or they can simply cut them off for a while when too many start to show up.  I know, you really want to play that character, but is that because there's no way to make his story work without a specific race that's been restricted right now (for example), or because you want that Drow spell resistance?  It's one thing to be able to come up with a good story of why your Drow is adventuring on Mistone, it's another to have to require him to be Drow because you can't change the story.

Second topic:

I've had the same problems with running into, shall we say, characters who have a dubious look to them, and having others chide me for doubting their good intentions.  If you see a goblin in the Wastelands, chances are you are shooting, stabbing, or spelling it, yet if you see one in Hlint (just a few yards away), suddenly he's ok?  When I've questioned the presence of Drow, I am one of the few people doing so.  I know that the players here are a tolerant, accepting lot, but our characters shouldn't necessarily be so.  Besides, it certainly makes for more good RP opportunities.

I have no problem with going around with a questionable character, but I'll RP something like that I'm keeping an eye on him.  I may end up trusting him, but it'll take time.  I suppose there are those characters who automatically trust everyone, but then why are they going around trusting this goblin, but killing that one?

Think of it this way: if you ran into someone dressed as a Nazi stormtrooper, who told you he was a good guy and wanted to go to a synagogue and meet with the rabbi, would you automatically trust him and think his intentions were pure?

DHF

[Xavori]

DeadHead Fred - 5/10/2006  5:34 PM

Second topic:

I've had the same problems with running into, shall we say, characters who have a dubious look to them, and having others chide me for doubting their good intentions.  If you see a goblin in the Wastelands, chances are you are shooting, stabbing, or spelling it, yet if you see one in Hlint (just a few yards away), suddenly he's ok?  When I've questioned the presence of Drow, I am one of the few people doing so.  I know that the players here are a tolerant, accepting lot, but our characters shouldn't necessarily be so.  Besides, it certainly makes for more good RP opportunities.

I have no problem with going around with a questionable character, but I'll RP something like that I'm keeping an eye on him.  I may end up trusting him, but it'll take time.  I suppose there are those characters who automatically trust everyone, but then why are they going around trusting this goblin, but killing that one?

Think of it this way: if you ran into someone dressed as a Nazi stormtrooper, who told you he was a good guy and wanted to go to a synagogue and meet with the rabbi, would you automatically trust him and think his intentions were pure?

DHF

I know what you mean regarding the drow (Or any of those particular races), but thankfully I've had a very interesting dialogue with a drow friend and two elves, one of them a priestess of a good-aligned god. She demanded that the drow proved to her that he wasn't bad, and thus he summoned a lantern archon. Not completely satisfied, she cast a spell to check on his deity, and that gained her trust.

The last analogy doesn't precisely hold for DnD, since Nazi's weren't a race, but a group of people who thought alike. In DnD, someone who looks like a drow doesn't neccesarily mean he is evil. Still, I get the idea of what you are saying  

[Ayreon]

Well traditionally if L says there are no more submissions allowed for a race---he means it. Submissions for all special races have been blocked at some point or another. I believe drow submissions were only allowed since last October or something (didn't matter for me, having already made mine months prior). i'm just going by shotty memory here, though.

Mostly everyone agrees that Drow should be treated with contempt--there is no point in treading old ground here. There are 2340928340293840293 topics on this already. If you say this enough, however, people see it is as a personal attack for some reason, as they treat drow differently (see Lonnarin's essays on internet psychological conditions haha...). I suppose a big problem with RP is that everyone feels the need to have to justify themselves, and everyone feels the need to criticize other people's RP. most people seem to fall into one of those categories.

edit: I should add that I'm not trying to preach here, i do both of those things. probably everyone does. I find that if I view roleplay as a past time instead of a skill I can enjoy myself more. k i'm tired. i can tell by the way i'm not capitalizing things, and that i'm going on like an old man.

[EdTheKet]

I didnt realise this would be such a hot topic but it seems every time you mention drow things get a little heated, I dont know why.

It's because a lot of people play goody-goody drow and don't want to deal with the consequences of a race that is hated throughout the world "No, I'm good. Really" and then a lot of people say "Yeah, he is, there's always exceptions."

Well, not that many with drow I could go on and on with a list of atrocities they committed the last 2000 years which every character should at least heard something about and hence make everyone mistrust them, but I won't

Good luck with the bio though

[Ayreon]

EdTheKet - 5/11/2006  4:20 PM

I didnt realise this would be such a hot topic but it seems every time you mention drow things get a little heated, I dont know why.

It's because a lot of people play goody-goody drow and don't want to deal with the consequences of a race that is hated throughout the world "No, I'm good. Really" and then a lot of people say "Yeah, he is, there's always exceptions."

Well, not that many with drow I could go on and on with a list of atrocities they committed the last 2000 years which every character should at least heard something about and hence make everyone mistrust them, but I won't

Good luck with the bio though

Good point...

Although I'm a goody-goody who argued that people should be hating the drow, that's pretty much what happens. The other thing that happens is that some players try to justify why they don't hate drow, and feel like they are being criticized when the subject is brought up.

And like Edtheket said on drow---they isn't nice folk