social proof, in hlint

[teefal]

As I see it, what's happening in hlint is *very* in character, and perfectly fine roleplay.  Read the chapter "Social Proof" in cialdini's classic book Influence.

Essentially, he performed psychological experiments along these lines:  He had someone fake an epileptic fit on a crowded sidewalk with many people walking on it.  Practically no one stopped to help.  He then did the same with a nearly empty sidewalk.  Nearly everyone stopped.  Point being ... we take our cues from the people around us.  If they're not alarmed, we're not alarmed.  It's human nature, and accounts for a lot of bizarre behavior that many label as apathy, etc.  He uses a famous example of a NYC woman loudly being murdered and no one calling the cops.  In his view, they didn't *because* no one was calling the cops.  But if there were no one around (in the woods, for example), the same people WOULD call the cops. It's a very good read, and disturbing too, since he makes a great case for how influence-able we *all* are.

This is also called "bystander behavior", and has a fair amount of research behind it.

Anyway, I see a direct parallel between social proof and what's happening (in character) in Hlint.

[Etinfall]

yes...I saw a report on this. They had a group in a conference room in a hotel/ The started to seep in smoke under the door. People would look at it but really not do anything. Then they added a person who was in on the plot. This time when the smole came in he got up and reacted and the rest followed his reactions.

[michaelbohun]

Teefal, that was right on target! An even being aware of the process doesn't make you immune to it.
  A+ for you!
  MB

[Germaine Lorn]

The experiment didn't have police standing by watching though (as in hlint there are guards etc)  THe experiment was also in a modern city environment.  The "bystander behavior" mentality also means that should a "monster" be attacked by a mob then noone would step in to defend the "monster".

It should also be noted that in the medaeivel world (which Hlint closer resembles than the modern world used in the experiments) there was a much greater sense of community.  The "hue and cry" was a very real and documented reaction to raise an angry mob to deal with criminal behaviour, threats to the community etc.

The "bystander behavior" works when there is no "them" and "us" behaviour.  If INDIVIDUALS within a community are under attack, in trouble etc.  It is true that many people will do excactly what the reseach demonstrates.  However if a of people feel threated as a COMMUNITY they do respond.  This has been cited as the "dunkirk spirit", but has other names in other cultures.

[michaelbohun]

Germaine, very valid points but one area I would like to address. The solidarity only existed among those that grew up and lived in the medieval village or area. Anyone coming into a town would be considered an outsider I believe, for a long time. Even in South Georgia, I have lived in my small town since 1988 but am not really accepted. Of course, wearing armor on the weekends might have a little to do with that.. ;-) 
  If I understand you correctly, then the sense of community would probably make it much harder for most of us to accepted, particularly if of a different race. And if one of us were to be attacked by a monster, the community would be reluctant to move to protect us.
  Maybe that is why the guards and others don't rush to our aid....? ya think?

[Vyris]

Just another one of them foriegn dirt bags beatin on another one of then foriegn dirt bags.... maybe we'll get lucky and they will stick each other and die at the same time.


Vyris

[Talan Va'lash]

Acctually, the conclusion drawn from these experiments, surveys, and from the NYC incident that you reference, was that since there were so many people around, everyone assumed that someone else would call 911, that someone else would handle it.  That no one else was doing anything merely confirmed their assumption that someone else had handled it.

When there are very few people, you cannot assume that someone else has called 911 or will shortly handle it.  Therefore you take action.

People dont think "wow, no one else is helping that guy thats bleeding to death in the middle of the street, therefore, doing nothing must be the right thing to do."  People don't take moral cues like that.

However, since so many other people are walking by, they assume that someone else has already alerted the authorities and that help is on the way.

Sociology 101

-TV

[lonnarin]

This also ties into road rage quite a bit.  A friend of mine saw a biker get blindsided by a pickup truck and the guy was passed out under his bike in the center lane.  Only my friend James stopped to help the guy, meanwhile everybody else was driving around him.  Some lady even had the gall to blare her horn at them screaming "Get out tha road! aaarrrgghh!"  Needless to say, James got right in her face about having no common decency or lack of compassion, and robbed from the security of 10 feet away in her car, she freaked out and sped off with her tail between her legs.

Wound up that the guy had a severe concussion, a punctured lung and a broken collar bone.  He takes the guy to the hospital ER waiting room and the nurse coldly tells them to take a number and wait for their turn.  Meanwhile James raises all holy Baator screming at her that a man is dying, telling her "Go ahead and call the police, I'll have them arrest you for neglect!".  Immediately the man is waved in.

The greater the population, the greater the neglect and lack of common decency & compassion.  I truly think humans are devolvling into mindless vermin sometimes.  It seems like the vast majority of post-modern mankind don't even bother to react to suffering unless something affects them directly.
------------
On the note of experiments, my absolute favorite was "Little Albert".  Lock a 3 month old baby in a room and introduce a cute fuzzy rodent.  The little baby giggles and reaches out to pet the creature... *HONK!*  the experimentor blows a bullhorn that scares the child just as he touches the mouse and makes him cry.  they repeated it over and over for owell over 3 weeks.  The poor guy grew up to be terrified of everything white and fuzzy well into his older years... it ranked right up there with the top most unethical experiments, alongside the Milgram Studies and the Tuskeegee experiments.  "Little Albert" was by far the most insane though.

------
Four new terms I've come up with in my Psychology essays...

--Automovincibility-- The belief that while in your car, you are invincible.  With 1.5 tons of steel wrapped around your puny skeletal frame and a loud horn that screams your anger when you push it, you become your own god, and 20X ruder, angrier and more insane.  See also "New York Cab-Driverism"

--Trollish Anonymity-- Being on an internet forum and gaining anonymity, the subject become 300X more rude, aggressive, racist and politically one-sided than he'd ever be in real life.  Exagerations of the number of intimate relations the subject states he has had with the opposite gender are 80,000% above the experienced number.

--Paranoid Hallucinatory Tonal Typophrenia-- The tendancy to become offended by the "Tone" of somebody elses' post, even though both science and basic logic clearly point out that only dialogue, not text, can convey inflections of emotional sarcasm within a message. (note: many of the romance languages, french, spanish, portugese actually do add grammatical inflections to the message to inflect tone in some words.  This definition applies only when no such text alterations are made)

--Egotistical Capsteria-- THE BELIEF THAT IF YOU TYPE IN ALL CAPS, PEOPLE WILL THINK THAT YOUR MESSAGE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHERS!

[NEXUS7]

--Paranoid Hallucinatory Tonal Typophrenia--
LoL grate observation has for the research it was good but I would like to see it repeated in Japan and other countries where it s felt that illness = bad karma and so bad luck.
I friend of mine was over there and an old woman fell over in a train. All the Japanese looked on but he was the only one to hold her and try and do 1st aid. He asked about it and was told that in old Japan it was felt that illness could pass on you if you helped that it was “Karmic” So I asked my wife about this (she’s Chinese) and she said that the older Chinese fell the same way. It also reminds me of a story I head about sealers in the 1700’s on the German Rhine river, an English traveler observed that when one poor sealer fell in the river his fellow crew members rather than try to save him called that he should not struggle and it was gods will. The chap droned and the crew seems happy with the fact as gods will was done. In Hilt with so many religious nuts around I would think you get this x 10.

Sorry for bad spelling etc

 

[LoganGrimnar]

come on Bjorn jump in the pond... its god will!

[Ayreon]

lonnarin - 8/8/2005  10:16 PM
------

--Trollish Anonymity-- Being on an internet forum and gaining anonymity, the subject become 300X more rude, aggressive, racist and politically one-sided than he'd ever be in real life.  Exagerations of the number of intimate relations the subject states he has had with the opposite gender are 80,000% above the experienced number.

--Paranoid Hallucinatory Tonal Typophrenia-- The tendancy to become offended by the "Tone" of somebody elses' post, even though both science and basic logic clearly point out that only dialogue, not text, can convey inflections of emotional sarcasm within a message. (note: many of the romance languages, french, spanish, portugese actually do add grammatical inflections to the message to inflect tone in some words.  This definition applies only when no such text alterations are made)

--Egotistical Capsteria-- THE BELIEF THAT IF YOU TYPE IN ALL CAPS, PEOPLE WILL THINK THAT YOUR MESSAGE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHERS!

hahaha...

I've never been able to escape these, especially on message boards.

"Trollish Anonymity" is my favourite. It is so pathetic. Maybe "Paranoid Hallucinatory Tonal Typophrenia" causes "Trollish Anonymity." Or people are just plain stupid. Either works. I might like to read these essays sometime

[Diamondedge]

I wouldn't wish that on ANY dwarf.