Simple question

[Taran]

I'm a experienced rper looking for a good world to explore.  I've read through the handbook and looked through the forums, but I can't seem to find an answer for my main pet peeve. Simply, have you changed the bioware form of the spell true seeing?  Because, it is a real turn-off to play a stealth based character on 'any' server where you can be detected through the use of such a low level spell.  Sorry if this has been brought up in the past and I have not found it.

[Variable]

True Seeing hasn't been changed although there have been some discussion about it.
  And since it is a 5th level spell and requires a rather expensive component (or eschew II) It is not a spell that people have cast much of the time. Do not let this one issue turn you awat from Layonara. Its a great world.

[Frendh]

I agree. It's worth downloading the files just to
have a look around. Even if it's only for one hour
of gameplay.

[ZeroVega]

Most players know that if you have True Sight on, you shouldn't be able to see someone who's sneaking (unless you can beat the hide/move silently check but how would you know?). So if you do come across a PC with True Sight, just let em know that you're sneaking and they should leave you alone.
  As for Monsters with True Sight, that can't be changed. Just not possible, so that's something to live with. But yeah I agree, most places haven't changed the TS thing even on a player level so I wouldn't let it discourage you (not that it has). Layonara is a great place for a lot of people but not everyone so give it a go and see if it's for you.

[Reventage]

I actually disagree, True Seeing should enable you to see sneaking rogues, at least to a degree.  This is a good thread discussing True Seeing and how Dorganath puts it is pretty much how I see it. Giganos' points are also valid.
Another approach I take to questions like these is that this is NWN, not PnP. NWN sometimes works differently from PnP. True, we strive to get as close to the PnP feel as possible, but we still take our game mechanics from the NWN engine and this is why we should accept the NWN mechanics as the reality that we need to work with.  So if True Seeing allows you to see sneaking rogues, then so be it. Maybe the spell, compared to the PnP one, has an additional effect where any moving object gives off a small amount of light. Or maybe the caster can just sense movement. So rather than trying to come up with elaborate explanations on why things should not work the way they are working, one should concentrate on coming up with reasons why things work the way they do.  Of course, this doesn't mean that we should flat out accept NWN game mechanics. We can change the function of the spells and we have done so in the past. This is all good. But unless the game mechanics of True Seeing are changed, then I see no reason to RP the effect of the spell differently from how it is.
To address the concerns of the original poster: As it was said, True Seeing has a fairly costy spell component or it requires the third Eschew feat to be casted freely, so you won't be seeing everyone running around under constant True Seeing. People only use it when they feel it's necessary to cast the spell.

[mixafix]

as above..otherwise why have spell,

[Synpox]

True seeing is a sixth level spell requiring eschew II to ignore the material cost.. At least for wizards.

On an old server I played it was changed to See Invisibility with +20 spot. Not much of a change but gave sneakers more of a chance to creep by without a nosy mage eyeballin em. That server allowed pvp though, so dont really see need for a change here.

Dont pass up the server because of one spell, really. You'll be missin out.

[Taran]

Synpox - 8/21/2005  2:32 PM

On an old server I played it was changed to See Invisibility with +20 spot. Not much of a change but gave sneakers more of a chance to creep by without a nosy mage eyeballin em. That server allowed pvp though, so dont really see need for a change here.

Dont pass up the server because of one spell, really. You'll be missin out.

This is pretty much the same with the last server I played on as well, but it was CvC.  I just think true seeing would hinder some good rping opportunites for dedicated stealthers such as spying and information gathering.  Any run on the mill mage can cast true seeing and detect a someone hiding behind a building listening to thier conversation no matter how skilled a rogue they are.   However, from what I have heard there is little to no player against player CvC combat, so maybe the true seeing discussion is void.

Other than that, there is no way one spell would turn me away.  I am open minded and will definately give it a shot.

 

[Mr. Tee]

Heck, like someone said above, the spell is a high level one (considering how long it takes to level up in Layo), uses a spell component if you don't have Eschew II... I've never seen anyone cast this spell yet here.

Do any monsters have perma-True Seeing? If not, then I really doubt anyone will ever spot you with True-Seeing while you sneak (my Ranger/Rogue can get sneak attacks all the time against monsters).

Enjoy Layonara, it is really a ton of fun, it's worth buying NWN just for this PW

[Filatus]

I'm not sure, but I believe medusa's have standard true seeing. Otherwise I have a hard time explaining the dozen arrows coming Daeron's way when he was exploring the mountains near Far Reach forest.

[miltonyorkcastle]

ha!  most 'run of the mill' mages on Layo can't even cast true seeing because most haven't made it past 8th level.

[ZeroVega]

Hmm... I agree. True Sight should be able to pierce magical shadows, then again even that's open to debate (least from what I know). I dunno how Shadow Dancer's shadow's work, but if they're using a strange type of magic maybe TS wouldn't see through it.
  As for normal Rogues, Rangers, Monks ect sneaking about. Well I dunno, perhaps it's ignorance on my part but I didn't think they could controll shadows. I always played it, and saw it played as they were slinking from tree, to rock, to crevas but that's just me. (It'd be a real pain walking at 50% speed to have to actually move from tree to tree or rock to rock just to justify not being seen by TS)
  On a last note, Clerics, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Druids(?) all have True Sight. Have a look at the Server Status and you'll see just how many of them there are. How many can actually cast it, I dunno, but it's a lot.

[teefal]

Is True Sight the spell with the eyeballs spinning around people's heads?  If so, I see it a lot.

[Lalaith Va'lash]

 See invis, and True Sight both have it...  So somtimes when you see that effect, its only see invisibilty, not true seeing.
  As far as I know, there are only a handful of creatures on the server that actually have true seeing, there are more that have see invisibilty though.
  And as for players, I could be mistaken, but I don't know all that many players with it, and the ones that I have seen use it, are all fairly high level.
  *Comments from a Shadowdancer*
  -LV
   

[errk]

Just to fill in what LV said..  True seeing is a 'hard' spell to aquire, and the spellslot it occupies is a valuable one. (6th circle for wiz) I don't even think it is common for mid level (11

[Talan Va'lash]

Thing is, the NWN sneaking mechanics are different than PnP.  If your hide/ms are high enough you can walk right up into someones face and they wont see you.  Thats not how hide/ms are really supposed to work.  The skills represent ability to move without sound and to hide yourself in whatever terrain is available or to blend into it using poor lighting or somesuch.

In that context, say, a ranger is hiding in some thick underbrush.  Even someone with true sight would have to scan the area and be good at picking up the little bits of you they see visually and putting the picture together (spot skill.)

However, the NWN engine doesnt take these things into account.  Even hide/ms of 700/700 wouldnt make you able to stand directly in front of someone two feet away and have them not see you, it doesnt make you invisible, however, in NWN it basically does.

The implementation of TS is a compromise/resuls with/of the way the hide/ms mechanic was implemented.

IC debate aside, TS needs to be the way it is because Hide/MS are the way they are.

-TV