The GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA

[NEXUS7]

Hi all
well I have just had news from the GMs which I will not go into detail over, but the out come of which is I wasted a lot of Layo life TIME.
In the past I have left Layo from time to time to cut down on time played, unlike many here my real life time is very scares, I have a hard job with long hours
and thows hours can be any time day or night. If I get a call mid DM game thats it im logged and gone.

So playing here is a treat I give myself, well for some time now I have been trying to do some thing and looks it was all for nothing,
and as I can not MAKE more time for layo as has been asked for. Now I have been on layo for over 12 mouths and there are DMS that have been here
less time than that. what I have found is that my game play as stagnated I just can not carry on making new PCs getting to 7th level and hanging there.

Lanthar there is a here wall a real wall at 7th to 9th you know its there, its a player time wall,

You log into Layo and start to play, up to 6 is fast around 20 hours will get you there, but then the wall hits.
The rules say no cheating in getting EXP and no telling other players how to zip up the level tree.
Good rule keeping players like myself dont even ask we keep to the rules.

So you ask on here, and you will get one flat responce, THOW SHALT PLAY DM GAMES!
Are you say to you self if your like me, DM games nice idear for thows with more game time but
when yoru RL gets in way of your lAYO life then is.

so its Sorry kids our way or NO WAY! which is there right as Lanthuar so all this himself for free.

But for me a lowly player I will never make 9th, SPugly only did it becouse the big L gave him 52k on one of the 3 DM games I have ever done.

So what is this GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA.

Its like having a realy demanding Girl freand
Its the COMITMENT WALL
see at 7th to 9th you have to move from being a Ill be a small time player to a Commited player.
Thats means real big time comitment, that means DM games and to get up that level tree lots and lots of DM games
with a group. See RP is what its all about and real RP is done many feel only in DM games. Yes you can run around with the
new players on Solo land but MDs rule here.

Thats the wall, TIME DEDICATED to LAYO = REWORDS.
8 mouths of odd hours here and there thats not what is wonted no, REAL LONG DAYS AND NIGHTS OF YOUR life sat it your pc
feeding the layo monster.

Now we who can not give that time end up looking in as other zoom past us up the level tree, they get all the cool stuff
and all the cool classes, they have been places and seen things wile we solo away on Hlint snaping for titbits of XP.

Well that wall to big for me,
what has just happoned means my PC is dead in the water, I just can not make the time and frankily im sick of trying.

Lanthuar thank you for Layo and all the DMs that work so hard here but The GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA is one that makes or brakes players,
after a year on here its broken me so dear layonorts have fun evey one and I may pop in and see LAYO nwn2 but im done here.

[Blackguy]

* Was told not to say anything if I didnt have anything nice to say *

[Pseudonym]

NEXUS7 - 10/12/2006  4:20 PM

well I have just had some bad news from the GMs which I will not go into detail over, but the out come of which is I wasted hours of my life for nothing.

Didn't you have fun playing? If so, how were the hours you invested a waste? Isn't the fun of playing it's own reward?

[NEXUS7]

for a time yes but in the end you it the Lyoa wall very hard, that tends to take a lot of the fun out of it.
yes you should say "its ok RPing at 7th level for ever is all the fun I need" but have you ever seen any one do that.
No becous to see more of the layo world your need to clime that level lader, ask a DM in game "I keep getting deaded when I go there" you will get
"well get stronger and you be a better fighter/mage etc" add to the High level players wondaring into Hling going
"O how I hate this place, its nothing like the cool place we hand out at"

But lets face it the wall is there, its real so lets stop pretending its not.

[Blackguy]

Nobody have ever said the wall isnt there. But your saying its completely impossible to get past, and thats not true. But DM quest help alot, and if you can't commit to any of those, at -all-, then there is not much hope. But I have to say, there is alot of low level quests these days, more than ever, and they are timed at alot of diffrent times, and diffrent days, so theres is bound to be one that fit to your schedule.

[Rayenoir]

If I'm not mistaken, all of your characters save your most recent have been special subraces.  Your most recent character was only played up to level 5 as it is.  Given that half-giants have an LA of +3, tieflings +2, and brownies +2 as well, you're effectively playing characters that are receiving XP as though level 10 or higher.  That is a documented slowdown point, so I'm not really sure why you're so frustrated.  Perhaps if you had stuck to one or two characters you would not have run into the wall you seem convinced is in place to frustrate those who don't have a lot of time to invest in the game.  As with everything, more time means more returns.  It's simply how things are.
It's not all about level.  Make some friends and go somewhere with them.  It's surprising just how much even a small group of similarly-levelled characters can manage, particularly when those characters have level adjustments to be more powerful than other characters of a given level.
This isn't your first time having these frustrations.  Back in July, I seem to recall a post similar to this one.  Did you forget when you came back what had frustrated you before?  If the "wall" is there, then it's because you're still approaching it the wrong way.

[Talan Va'lash]

First of all, I wholely recognize and agree with you that there is a level wall or.. hump might be more appropriate. It is not a small hump. I'd place the peak of it at 9th level though it really does begin at 7-8, then 8-9 is a bit worse then 9-10 is the longest.

After you reach 10, 10-11 doesn't seem so bad.

Just for comparison, I've had a character at level 9 for... close to six months I believe. I also currently have a character who has been sitting at level 13 for months. The fact of the matter is that those characters sat at that level for so long for one reason: I choose to engage in non-xp gaining activites because I had more fun. Does that mean I didn't want to level? No, not really. I did. But when it was a choice between fun RP and focusing on something that would get me xp I almost always choose the former.

Well, except when I have the chance to go on a DMed quest, that's like getting both at the same time

NEXUS7 - 10/12/2006  12:53 AM
"O how I hate this place, its nothing like the cool place we hand out at"

ohhh hehehe, this NEEDS some clarification.

There is NO super cool place that high level characters congregate and hang out.

The complaining about hlint is all IC. There isn't really another place on the whole server where you can go and always run into other characters. Talan may talk about voltrex favorably but usually I'm there alone or with one or two other players that came with me.

Hlint is pretty much the only gathering place. Even when you're level 23 you'll still come back to hlint when you want to find people to RP with randomly.

-----

Anyway, I sympathize with your situation and I think ways are coming to reward the more solely rp oriented character in addition to DM RP rewards (which I believe you were a recipient of when I was on the other day ;P)

There are intangible rewards to a playstyle that doesn't focus on XP though. I'm sure there are many characters that reached high levels very quickly that I may not have met or quickly forgot.

I remember the names and mannerisms of... 4, no 5 of your characters over the past year. I'm just using my own memory as an example (as I can only speak for myself) but I'd imagine that your characters are known and remembered much more widely than many characters that gained xp quickly.


This message is for all of the players out there who focus on RP and feel frusterated by xp and levels.


Edit in response to Raynoir: Oh yeah, ECL is a bugger. After playing ECL 3's, play a human, it'll feel like cheating ;P (I'm exadggerating, but the impact of ECL should not be underestimated.)

[trillex]

I've been here for a very long time, playing on and off and have only reached level 9 with one character, who then was recreated and haven't gotten any further than level 7. So I got 2 level 7, 1 level 5 and 1 level 3 and I also feel that there is a huge and almost impassable gap between 7 and 9. But, I did have fun with all of those characters and I will, slowly but steadily, get there.

All in all, every hour used on this server has almost always been a joy but my timezone and limited time right now, makes it a bit hard to do anything.

[NEXUS7]

Blackguy - 10/12/2006  12:09 AM

Nobody have ever said the wall isnt there. But your saying its completely impossible to get past, and thats not true. But DM quest help alot, and if you can't commit to any of those, at -all-, then there is not much hope. But I have to say, there is alot of low level quests these days, more than ever, and they are timed at alot of diffrent times, and diffrent days, so theres is bound to be one that fit to your schedule.

I saying the WALL is the Time needed to get above level 9
see my point what your saying is just what I said

"But DM quest help alot, and if you can't commit to any of those, at -all-, then there is not much hope."

Thats the wall its rock solid and there is no way past, booking a CDQ is out as well as if I can not comit to DMQs then, well you see my point.

There is no way past the "get a Layo life" or its low levels for all time.

And look I have been on here over a year, playing the times I can, when I have time I drop in. I dont do DMQs becouse I can not garentee the phone will not go and then I have to log. I have tryed to book 3 CDQs but as you book weeks in advance I dont even know if I will be un the UK from day to day so thats out.

The wall is there, it kills play for players like me there is and never will be a Level tree for us, Thows that can not commit hard time day in day out.
You know this so why say you can get past it you can not.

[NEXUS7]

Rayenoir - 10/12/2006  12:13 AM

If I'm not mistaken, all of your characters save your most recent have been special subraces.  Your most recent character was only played up to level 5 as it is.  Given that half-giants have an LA of +3, tieflings +2, and brownies +2 as well, you're effectively playing characters that are receiving XP as though level 10 or higher.  That is a documented slowdown point, so I'm not really sure why you're so frustrated.  Perhaps if you had stuck to one or two characters you would not have run into the wall you seem convinced is in place to frustrate those who don't have a lot of time to invest in the game.  As with everything, more time means more returns.  It's simply how things are.
It's not all about level.  Make some friends and go somewhere with them.  It's surprising just how much even a small group of similarly-levelled characters can manage, particularly when those characters have level adjustments to be more powerful than other characters of a given level.
This isn't your first time having these frustrations.  Back in July, I seem to recall a post similar to this one.  Did you forget when you came back what had frustrated you before?  If the "wall" is there, then it's because you're still approaching it the wrong way.

Yes i did last time and the wall is still there, yes you can RP at any level but there is only so many time you can go into the red mains show new players around and
talk about the war.

Yes I have subraces, I new I would have the XP hit on this BUT! as layo seem to have players who all like playing subs to the pint Landuer has to shoot the door
to stop players taking them im not any amy means unusahle. As for not playing wight are you saying there "IS!" a way to get levels with spiradic playing times.
Becosue you knwo its chating to tell me, so how did you find it if there is a way.

Also I do put the time in its just that I can not make FIXED times, 4 or 8 hours here i have done I just can not book the time.

If I had a DM who seeing me in game TELLs me hay your on cool lets do that CDQ then I can say yep I have 4 hours here, But layo is about BOOKED TIME
and that I just can not do, I have got 6 count them 6 PCS to levels 6 to 10, thats becosue I can do that in game by RPsing quests with NONE BOOKED Time

The wall is the NOW YOU MUST BOOK TIME FOR QUESTS and that where layo ends for me.
So I make a new PC and RP my guys out, ask the players about MAX, Mille and Spugly all much loved all RPed and all ingame when I can make it.

[Pankoki]

With the XP you have accumulated with your other five characters and taking your ECL into account your main character would be over level 11.
  You cannot expect to have six characters and level up steadily with all of them with limited playtime. Only those with plenty of time can even attempt that feat and even then it takes time. It requires patience to get over the wall, but it does not require for you to exclusively just go to DM quests. There is no big hidden secret conspiracy. It's simply being there with groups and slowly increasing your XP through crafting, sporadic quests, quests, and/or adventuring.  

[NEXUS7]

trillex - 10/12/2006  12:37 AM

I've been here for a very long time, playing on and off and have only reached level 9 with one character, who then was recreated and haven't gotten any further than level 7. So I got 2 level 7, 1 level 5 and 1 level 3 and I also feel that there is a huge and almost impassable gap between 7 and 9. But, I did have fun with all of those characters and I will, slowly but steadily, get there.

All in all, every hour used on this server has almost always been a joy but my timezone and limited time right now, makes it a bit hard to do anything.

Ye im the same I play all to times of day not just GMT and see a lot of the player who come one when layo has about 6 or 7 in.

Im not saying RP is not fun, why do you think i have 4 PCs all every difarent all Disened as RP PCs not Munkins.

Spugly, Softharted half Gaint who still morns Aylas death.
Max, lost plaintuched who found a key in Sigil and end up in a war, his Brain Box all a mudell andready for the dustys
Mille Mooneyes: Map maker and news hound for Bee that most respected of Brownis, How many groups have head out with Mille and had them selfs saved by here
healing.
Rosa, The mad Punk Monk who hates all god

So I do RP and Im not a XP bunny its just that to get more from layo you have to book RL time which I just can not do, the and thows who have posted here have said with out that then your stuck.

Thats the wall its big huge and fixed, there is no way around the BOOKED TIME = LEVELS

Thats why I giving up I just flat out fustrated at the lack of help for thows like me, time and again I have seen posts which say the same thing.
RP yes its good but when you stuck at the same level seeing your RP mates zooming off its just gets disartaning and fustrating.

you brake on the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA

[LordCove]

I've actually noticed that spending 2-3 hours adventuring with friends can get you the equivalent of 2-3 hours worth of GM time....depending on where you go of course.

[NEXUS7]

Pankoki - 10/12/2006  2:47 AM    With the XP you have accumulated with your other five characters and taking your ECL into account your main character would be over level 11.
  You cannot expect to have six characters and level up steadily with all of them with limited playtime. Only those with plenty of time can even attempt that feat and even then it takes time. It requires patience to get over the wall, but it does not require for you to exclusively just go to DM quests. There is no big hidden secret conspiracy. It's simply being there with groups and slowly increasing your XP through crafting, sporadic quests, quests, and/or adventuring.  

 Wrong, thats not what im saying I saying thats what I tryed with my 1st PC spugly and hit the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA also after larning what Layo was I was new to online gamming and layo is my only server. I made Max then mille then rose each let me run around the Solos and RP the NONE booked time that is my play time,   BUT I found Mille the best PC Meny here make two or more befor they find that PC they realy like to play, MIlle is mine But for her to go the way I wont her to I needed to get a CDQ  are the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA means I must book that time but I can not book time QED dead PC.  And Spugly well he lost all and I mean all his fellows to, Death, Lost gamers, or they levels out of quest reach,   NO one below level 10 need aplay, and remeber taging with high level PCS is chating if your farming for XP.    Ayla died and so he went home, sorry but Im not going to shoue horn RP into a PC just to make levels, Adding up all my PCs EX will not make him 11th becosue  he needed to get thows from doing this out side Hlint whare as the others did the same quests over and obver.   And one level 7 heading out solo to get Ex has a very lonly time and dies real fast.  who going to help you get to your grave stone when you on your own and miles from Hlint.  So your wrong sorry adding up all my EX dos not give me livel 11, just lots of the same quests which where done with fun and good RP.

[NEXUS7]

LordCove - 10/12/2006  2:55 AM

I've actually noticed that spending 2-3 hours adventuring with friends can get you the equivalent of 2-3 hours worth of GM time....depending on where you go of course.

yep it dos but it dos not get you a CDQ when you can not book time sad but true.

[Pankoki]

With all due respect, and in perfect understanding of your dyslexia, could you please take a time to review your post before submitting? I have tried to read it a couple of times, but I fail to see how what I say fails to address your statements. Nor do I understand the point you are trying to make.
 
  Regardless of that, and what I think is what you are stating, is the fact that you can't get with groups of players in order to level up, or that the systems in place impede your character from further progressing. Again, you are placing your own limitations. So your Shadowdancer wasn't approved yet? Alright, bummer. Level her up as a rogue and continue playing her since you enjoy being with her and sooner than later you will hit a group of players to hang out with and go ahead and get the XP.
  I can tell you from my own personal experience, that I've faced all those walls you mention, yet with time and patience slowly I managed to find a niche for my character and whenever she passes by through Hlint, there's at least one or two people asking her to come along to do something. Am I lucky? No. I too had to go through at least 3+ months of shuffling about before I even got into a steady playing group.
  I believe that your problem is easily solved with some patience and I understand the frustration, at some point we all have been there.

[Talan Va'lash]

NEXUS7 - 10/12/2006  4:03 AM  

Pankoki - 10/12/2006  2:47 AM    With the XP you have accumulated with your other five characters and taking your ECL into account your main character would be over level 11.
  You cannot expect to have six characters and level up steadily with all of them with limited playtime. Only those with plenty of time can even attempt that feat and even then it takes time. It requires patience to get over the wall, but it does not require for you to exclusively just go to DM quests. There is no big hidden secret conspiracy. It's simply being there with groups and slowly increasing your XP through crafting, sporadic quests, quests, and/or adventuring.  

 Wrong, thats not what im saying I saying that I tryed with my 1st and hit the GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA so after larning NEW online is my only server I made Max then mille then rose each let me run around the Solos and RP the NONE booked time that is my play time, BUT I found Mille the best PC Many here make two or more befor they find that PC they realy like to play, MIlle is mine But for her to go the way I wont her to I needed to get a CDQ  are GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA means I must book that time but I can not book time QED dead PC.  And Spugly well he lost all and I mean all his fellows to, Death, Lost gamers, or they levels out of quest reach,   NO one below level 10 need aplay.   Ayla died and so he went home, sorry but Im not going to shoue horn RP into a PC just to make levels, Adding up all my PCs EX will not make him 11th becosue  he needed to get thows from doing this out side Hlint whare as the others did the same quests over and obver.   And one level 7 heading out solo to get Ex has a very lonly time and dies real fast.  who going to help you get to your grave stone when you on your own and miles from Hlint.  So yor wrong sorry.

 Regardless of why you stopped playing each, you still played each for a time instead of playing one. It doesn't really matter though because playing varying characters is part of the fun of role playing.  If one is so convinced of someone that their opinion will not change despite reasoned argument then it is not really a debate anymore.  The reason things need to be scheduled is so people know when to show up.  The need for scheduling when more than 1 person is involved should be fairly apparent and there isn't much that can be done about it. Especially involving somehting like a CDQ when the DM, the player, and everyone the player invites must show up at the same time. That kind of coordination requires scheduling or the event simply will not be able to happen.  Also, everything Pan said is correct. You can get over the wall without going on a single quest. I've done it with an ECL 2. Over several months.  Also, you don't need to be high level to join parties. Those that make an RP contribution and especially those that are charismatic and likable can usually implant themselves in any group.  If you are getting angry at this discussion perhaps you should step away for some time for other reasons.

[NEXUS7]

"The reason things need to be scheduled is so people know when to show up."
Im not saying other wise, but its a probelm when you can not book your time for CDQ.

"Also, you don't need to be high level to join parties. Those that make an RP contribution and especially those that are charismatic and likable can usually implant themselves in any group."
also true but it has been comented on here about the lack of lower level quest, this may have changed but when you can not book time what matter so it make.

"If you are getting angry at this discussion perhaps you should step away for some time for other reasons."
I am still at Fustration when I get to anger I will do just that.

NEWS UP DATE

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=30802&posts=7&start=1

Thats A grate Idear, If the level of CDT is low then by droping some EXp staying at 8th and then doing some good RP and CDT logs.
The lock out of CDQs for thow that can not book time can be over come and the wall comes down. I like it its simpal and lets me RP my why out of this.

Deep breath, yep thats the way past this

Thanks aragwen and also stormspirit for there grate idears how to get past this
and to all the DMs and all who posted here,

I will take it back you can get past The GRATE WALL OF LAYONARA of Booking CDQ thinks to some clear thinking.

Deep bearth and realix
[/QUOTE]

[EdTheKet]

So next time, please take the deep breath first and ask if we can come up with some solution or if there's some other way instead of making the post above.
Thank you.

[NEXUS7]

Will do, but I also feel I made a valid point here, there is a 3ed way which is take down your ex and put the time you have into RP and CDT,
aragwen (DM) made a go point on DMs not seeing PR in game if thay are not there thats where went wrong, For each hour of RP
in game I should have spent the next wrighting up in my CDT for Mille means less playing time but gets her where I would like her to be.

Also there is a wall, bump, blip call it what you will from 7th to 10th as has been pointed out here,
the only thing that counters it is TIME played in game, It could be lots of time in the short turm or
small bit of time over mouths but it can be gottem over. Booking time for guests helps aut there has to be a rot for thows
like me who can not book time, and lets be clear on this I have time just can not book it.

I know that each DM like players has there own point of view on this and thats a good thing, you need many points of view to make a team strong.
This is one instance where many hands make light work.

But also understand I was looking at a CDQ or nothing post last night which would crush any one after so much work and time.

Thanks once again.