Is there a way to improve some of the armors?

[Vyris]

Just been thinking lately, one of the main reasons I've quit crafting armors lately is due to what seems to me to be a real lack of demand for it. All the high level characters have thiers, some even have the next two suits in storage that they plan to wear in progression. The lower level folks either can't afford it, can't wear it yet, or are skipping copper and bronze upgrades and going straight to iron.

Is there any way to add another layer to the armor forging process and the ore smelting process?

What I have been thinking for this is to add items that aren't normally used in CNR, like the lichen on the black ice island, pears... theres a bunch that my alchemist friends don't have any use for... rhubarb may be another one. Anyway. In my wonderfull vision I see a use for these things, making useless things more usefull.

Helmets are a definate niche that could be improved, I know that there is a very valid concern with people loading up 3 - 4 of the same item if that item were to have a usefull ability with Xtimes/day, And I am not entirely sure if there is a programming way around it, but here are a couple solutions to that, before I go on to list some helmet ideas. Most of my programming experience is from what experience I have with LPMuds, so tell me if I wander out of the realm of possibility here with NWN.

solutions :
1) Invoke the "It's my game, and I say so" rule - Make it painfully and blatantly obvious that these items are to be considered 'unique' penalties for breaking this rule could run the gauntlet, from first offense warnings to repeat offender bank account wipe to blatant disregard DT.

2) Actually make the item unique? everyone has a helmet of armor I or II. which is why helmets are practice fodder for armorers. The beauty of those helmets is you can't trade them, you can't store them. the only way to get rid of them is to chuck 'em or sell them I think? would it be possible to make the item "imprintable" so I could make a "Shiney helmet of light" then sell it to Orth, Orth then imprints the helmet and changes the title to "Orth's shiney helmet of light" The item then gets the same attributes as the helmets of armor that make them non-transferrable.

2a) There could be additional business for other craftsmen with this too. Need to imprint an item, gotta talk to an alchemist and buy an imprinting gem, The shiney helmet of light recipe could require several gems of light for example, want a suit of armor that protects in a more proactive way? Get a suit of imprintable copper full plate, then you could do like we do for weapons, buy a rod of ~elemental damage an use it on the imprintable armor, gives the armor a %chance to burn, shock, or freeze whatever hits you for 2, 3, or 4 points depending on what level rod you buy. (no reason this same principle cannot be applied to tailored goods as well)

3) This is where I may go off track a bit. on the LPMud we had the same concern, that someone would load up on imprinted items and be "uber-orc" or some such. The way we got around this was to limit the number of imprinted items that a person can have to 5 (On the MUD we had weapon/body/head/arms/hands/legs/feet/shield/amulet/belt/ring/ring) and we added an gold piece cost to the imprinting that made it pretty prohibitive to get more than 2-3 items like that. In the example above, if The shiny helmet of light were Orth's first personalized item the desciption of the item would read "Orths shiney helmet of light" But the item name as far as the game driver was concerned was something like /players/orth/persitems/Orthhelmet1.c.

 Orths helmet of sniney light would have cost him the time involved collecting the materials to make the helm (or paying another to make one for him) the cost of the imprinting gem (I think it was around 1000 coins) and twice as many scrolls of the light spell as he wanted to have charges per 'day'. The cost was then added into the cost of crafting, a copper helmet would cost less than an iron one, and a gold helm would have been the top, at a base 10k coin, plus another 100 coin for each scroll (up to a max of 5 charges/day) So Orths shiney gold helmet of light would have come out to 1000 for the gem, 1000 for 10 scrolls of light, 3000 for the gold helm itself, 10000 for the crafting. 15k coin for a helmet that does nothing more than cast light 5x/day. Now the real kicker was, the number of the item was the multiplier for the cost... so the base cost of the item for OrthITEM1 was 10k coin, but if Orth wants to add an enchantment to his armor, thats OrthITEM2, so the multiplier is doubled, 20k coin base cost just for the item. OrthITEM3, 30k, etc. There wen't too many people that had more than 3 personalised items, because the base cost got to be a prohibiting factor.

Now I know the light spell is a weak example, I would hope some things more usefull than light would be allowed (A helmet of cure 3x/day for my fighter would be a huge benifit I'd be willing to shell out 20k for) But anyway. The way it worked best was that in Orths player file there could only be a single file neamed OrthHELMET1.c . If Orth wanted to make another helmet he had to destroy the one he had first.

Anyway, I hope theres some possible feedback to this idea, and I know everyone is insanely busy, you guys are awesome... just hoping to expand the armoring business into something thats usefull and in demand more than making the occasional upgrade for someone.

Vyris

[FlameStrike]

The problem with further improving the armors is that it would increase their level requirement, and as such, people wouldn't be able to use them until a certain level, that could possibily stop making sense because there would be better ones available.

[Aryn Ravenlocke]

Specialty armors are in the works, but they will not be just armor smithing types. Furthermore, it will take a relatively high level armor smith in order to assist in the crafting. There are some new helms coming along as well.

As far as there being no call for armor smiths to have work, I find that very odd. It sounds to me like you need more publicity to get yourself orders for armors. Every type of metal crafted armor has a unique usefulness. Armors below platinum and really adamantium are designed to be pretty mundane. Witht his being the case, the majority of low level crafting is for practice and scrap only and not for making large sums of money.

As has already been pointed out, there are level prereq consideratins to take into accout. There is also the concept of this being a low magic world. Even the best armors are sgoing to seem a bit underwhelming when compared to standard NWN.

As far as increasing the cost 3, 4, or even 10 times on some of the special armors in what it takes to craft them, I can assure you, that although the flow of them would slow down, eventually every mid-high level fighter type in the game would still have a set. Money is not difficult to come by, even at lower levels.


YT

[Vyris]

Thanks Aryn, perhaps you are on the mark and I just need to put on the sandwich board and walk around calling out my wares, and having had you say that armors below platinum are means to be pretty mundane... well, I guess that makes sense too, I am just comfortably able to make iron armor, so I will doggedly keep hammering away untill I have mastered the craft.

The only realy point I guess I was trying to make is that the armor I sell is a durable resource, and if I sell an iron half-plate to a fellow, he probably isn't going to be looking for different armor for upwards of 2-3 levels, which could mean 2-3 months on Layo. That and the thought of getting the other crafts kindof cross-involved in making special items. I should count my blessings though I suppose, the weapon crafters have a lot broader skill base they need to master for thier craft with molds and such, and I can buy the patterns I need instead of having to make them.

Anyhow, in keeping with the low magic theme I think everything is pretty kosher right now, looking forward to the new items and thanks for the response.

Vyris

[Leanthar]

Yeah, I wish we could have item wear/tear because it would be used and in place.  With NWN (1) at least we can't for PW's because it causes major lag hits/spikes....  But it is on the drawing board IF we go to NWN 2 or DA (I said IF, btw).

[Ar7]

*looks at the large IF* Did this mean that there might be no Layo after NWN2 or DA comes out, or did it mean that nobody knows for sure what game will Layo be based on?

[Eloyn]

My only question is, how can we bring Layo to NWN 2 if (I heard this) it has no toolset?  I (also) heard that there is no DM client.  I'm just wondering.....

[Leanthar]

It means that I will look at them both and decide if I want to move to them at all.
  The toolset and the DM client are critical in my decision.  However (as a heads up) BOTH will have both of those, (as per their FAQ).  So, I will decide where to go when I see them.
  Want a quicker decision?   Then start lobbying Bioware and Obsidean to allow Layonara in to their beta.  Then I can decide quicker.

[steverimmer]

I know about NWN 2 but whats DA?

[Leanthar]

DA = Dragon Age from Bioware.

[steverimmer]

Thanks just had a look on the site and it looks good

[Dhampir]

Curious is there much about DA on the net at the moment? i cant find allot........

(altho i will say i dont like the idea of a fixed cam as i just read there is and being able to cycle between *modes*)

[Eloyn]

Bioware site has a bit about it.  Looked at some screenies....the game looks high end graphics ways at least

Is it possible for the use of leather craft to include making armor from the hides of more exotic creatures other than the common hides currently in use now?
This would be perfect for the classes that currently use light armors. Although I could see a rogue wearing studded or leather armor. I can only see druids wearing leather or hide. Mind you I am not sure it is in here yet, but what about padded or quilted armor?