Drow

[ZeroVega]

The Drow, The Dark Elves, The Acursed, Those Below, Those Who Have Turned Evil.
  [SIZE=10]Does it speak to you? No? Let us continue.[/SIZE]
  Ages past, The Drow were already known as a warlike race, attacking neighbors for power, wealth, or more insidious gains.
  [SIZE=10]Little light bulb gone off in your head? No? On we go![/SIZE]
  In the early days of the rule of Pranzis a company of horsemen were sent to settle into the wilds of the southern plains to make the land liveable by common folk. A massive drow invasion in the prior century had drawn all of the capitol's attention and left the south, despite being so close, to fall into shadow. The towns of the southern plains were quickly overrun and the people either fled further south or went missing.
  [SIZE=10]Still not convinced? Follow me...[/SIZE]
  Dark Elf Deities: Prince of Hate, Lord of Spiders, The Left Hand of Black, Mother of Darkness, Quaravalsharess.
  [SIZE=10]Hmm hmm... this is getting fun so let's move along. [/SIZE]
  Dark Elf Deity Dogmas: "Worship the Mother of Darkness or die. Destroy the weak and the faithless. Strive to better yourself even at the expense of others; in this way you will gain and keep the favor of the Mother of Darkness. Dark Elves are the supreme race, and females are better than males. Dark elves shall reign supreme in the Underdark. Annihilate the surface elves and take their land from them.
  "Vengence is an art, it is sweet and should be savored, a pleasure not to be rushed. Nothing is more satisfying than watching your plans of revence come to fruition and have the object of your retribution realize that you were behind it... but too late. The Prince of Hate will look down favorably upon you if your subterfuge remains hidden to all but your target. The weak and the faithless should be destroyed."
  [SIZE=10]Getting good eh? Just a bit more.[/SIZE]
  -105
  Dark Elves stage their first major attack on the Humans that live "topside." They held the city of Wesgate for over a decade before being defeated.
  -834
  The great city of Port Hampshire was destroyed by an army of dark elves and chromatic dragons. Nearly 5 million gold is sacked and the famous "City of Gold" begins to rebuild.
  Also I've counted at least 4 Drow attacks on Hlint including at least one occourance that I was present for, where a drow assassin took out near half a dozen PCs and probably every patron in the Wild Sturge single handedly.
  [SIZE=10]Anyone NOT feel like hating drow now please tell me.  [/SIZE]

[DanMacNWN]

I have a problem with this race even being allowed to be player character since this server is not PvP. Getting into an arguement with a drow, as I have done, does not let the type of hatred out that should be felt against such a race. They have proven themselves untrustworthy through some of the things you've said. Attacking hlint in three different occurances ... would this type of action not tell every guard of Hlint that most likely lost someone they knew (family or friend) to kill any Drow on sight? This part makes no sense to me in this game setting. The description of a drow is too evil to not cause conflict with a non PvP setting.  " ... oh you evil drow, you killed my family member during your last raid. I hate you ..."

[ZeroVega]

 The problem I see here, isn't that people can't show enough hatred, it's being realistic in all of this. A lot of people are showing NO hatred at ALL. Believe me, you start killing every drow you see (and with ELC 2 causing them to level slowly, it would be easy) you'd get complaints. Where as you start excluding drow from converstions, quests, adventures ect... really come down on em hard. Trust me, it'll hurt more and there's nothing they/I/we, can complain about.

[Ayreon]

Yeah, it's too bad that THE MAJORITY of people tend to be so accepting and open minded towards them.(heh...that sounds funny...and, no, i'm not being sarcastic.)

My first day on the server, I was basically cornered by a guy with a knife. That was frickin' cool...(routerblade =P)

I've bumped into a few players who RP hating drow (for obvious reasons)...also frickin' cool.

I've had to earn the trust of a few people....frickin' cool. (routerblade again =P)

But everyone else just loves drow??? "Lets siddown and have tea and crumpets with the *ACCURSED*. We can talk about flowery things like...oh, i dunno, destroying the weak and faithless? "

C'mon people, lets see some more disrespect and prejudice!!

Obviously people are RP'ing wise, open minded, or unjudging characters. That's great and there is NOTHING WRONG with that. Period.

I highly doubt that almost EVERYONE is supposed to be this way. I've heard other people say things like, "Yeah I might even adventure with some [drow], but  only if there is other people around." There should at least be some mistrust, like the mentioned fellow.


Anyways, great post ZV. This has been on my mind for awhile as well.

I wouldn't say this is a HUGE RP issue, but it's one that should be adressed to keep on improving. That's what makes layo great, dedicated RPers who try and "kick it up a notch" (to quote that one chef...at least that's what I think he says ).

[RouterBlade]

that thought is just really funny
drow elf scared of a 2 foot guy tall haha

[Zhofe]

Well .... right now my character, who was (and pretty much still is) a goody goody paladin wannabe currently trusts his life (well, for the most part) to two Drow, a priestess of the god of death, and a woman who should be dead.

And maybe the voice in his head ....

Well ... I guess that last sentence sums it up ..... my character is probably pretty much insane .... nevermind ...

[General_Ski]

Mmm this calls for a drow bashing dwarf... Bruenor where are you?

[Ayreon]

RouterBlade - 7/13/2005  10:22 AM


that thought is just really funny
drow elf scared of a 2 foot guy tall haha

hey man, you snuck up on me =P

I'd rather not take slice to my achilles....yeckkk...=P

[regnus]

I as just saying something like this to my friend.  We both play drow characters.  I can remember when we first got here that drow were hated.  It was not long after the attacks I think.  Not sure though.  Anyway, we got kicked out of town!  Garent even counted to 10.  It was very cool.  I was apprehensive about entering Hlint again after that.  

Afterwards, there was a lot of mistrust on both sides until we fell into a group that accepted us.  It was fun being harrassed though.  It was part of Owen's development.  He grew up on the surface so it was kind of new to him.  Nowadays though, it seems like there has been some major event in the underdark that has caused a mass exodus.  There are drow everywhere.  If I didnt know any better I would think that another attack or something is coming.  Or do I know any better?

[Ayreon]

Zhofe - 7/13/2005  10:23 AM

Well .... right now my character, who was (and pretty much still is) a goody goody paladin wannabe currently trusts his life (well, for the most part) to two Drow, a priestess of the god of death, and a woman who should be dead.

And maybe the voice in his head ....

Well ... I guess that last sentence sums it up ..... my character is probably pretty much insane .... nevermind ...

That's a good example of when trusting drow is perfectly fine, to me anyways. Like I said, EVERYONE doesn't have to LOATH them. I would say the majority of people should, in the very least, be untrusting (save for those very wise, and unjudging chars).

[Imperious]

Interesting original post...but I would note that the attack on Hampshire occurred more than 600 years ago, according to the Layo timeline....that's many, many generations...especially given that history is probably fragmented and not always passed down accurately.....

So for many of us, especially those of us who might have been working in a manor kitchen for most of our lives:

a) drow might just be fables;
b) never seen a Drow;
c) may have never seen an Elf, Dwarf, gnome, halfling, etc. (probably but maybe not), and in any event, might not be able to distinguish certain subraces
d) might react to a Drow the same way they react to other subraces -- with either less or more prejudice
e) if new to Hlint or character has come from other area, wouldn't know about recent attacks on Hlint. I've been on Layo for a month and am now only getting fragments of the "Drow plot"

Sure, we may all know as players that the race overall is evil, but frankly, given the limited worldview of any player, I might be more concerend about the bandits that always attacked our fields or some other local matter. My initial vew about Drow might be either "yeah, right, they're not real" to "600 years ago..what have you done for me lately?"

Just a thought...

[feniox]

As far as drow and other elves go, 600 years is only one generation, or two at the most. Unless I missed something.

[Ayreon]

ZeroVega - 7/13/2005  8:43 AM Also I've counted at least 4 Drow attacks on Hlint including at least one occourance that I was present for, where a drow assassin took out near half a dozen PCs and probably every patron in the Wild Sturge single handedly.[/i]
  Anyone NOT feel like hating drow now please tell me.  

 These are all recent. (they were before I played layo, but Ayreon learned of them from various players)  And certain characters (ie Celgar) tend to make a point of recounting these events every time a drow is within 20 feet of him. =) (good RPing btw)  It obviously had a much greater impact on him, losing much of his family, friends, etc. Imagine in RL if someone told you this? We tend to avoid those who are suspect of serious crime. The drow's reputation should lend them to being suspect. Perhaps people don't value their life enough?  From what I can see, the majority of layo PCs adventure somewhat often. Infact, most of the people I see around Hlint I have also engaged unfriendlies with. I do not think this would contribute to a "limited world view."  But your post most certainly does validate the fact that NOT EVERYONE has to hate drow. You are correct, perhaps for those with EXTREMELY limited world view (ie just arrived at Hlint, and never leaves), they might not even believe in the existance of drow. (However it is important to realize those who have been in Hlint for a number of years, and rarely leave would normally fear drow for the terrors they've commmited.)  Also, take someone like Ozymandias who just kills drow on sight. He clearly has no fear of them, he just does not like them.   And I will say it again, depending on your character's history and characteristics, you may not dislike drow. My only point here is that everyone should not be lovey-dovey with the the accursed.  I hate to be the one to say it, but maybe Hlint needs another drow raid. hehe.

[Ayreon]

feniox - 7/13/2005  11:01 AM

As far as drow and other elves go, 600 years is only one generation, or two at the most. Unless I missed something.

Absolutely correct.

The life span of elves tend to be in the 600-700 year range.

[Imperious]

Good point...I suppose I was being human-centric...sorry to all the subraces out there   ....neverthetless, humans do make a large majority of the population.

[Ar7]

Imperious - 7/13/2005  10:43 AM

Interesting original post...but I would note that the attack on Hampshire occurred more than 600 years ago, according to the Layo timeline....that's many, many generations...especially given that history is probably fragmented and not always passed down accurately.....

After having said that, please answer this question. How many years do elves live and for that matter, dwarves?

I agree with ZV on this, nothing more I could add....well maybe I could, I am just lazy

Ar7

EDIT While I was typing this, 4 new messages appeared....you people are too fast

[Vyris]

I guess I have the best of both worlds, all my characters react differently to Drow, depending on the level of assumed risk.

Bidwick is mildly amused by Owen, and always states that he's suprised someone hasn't "Planted you yet." But he's a little afraid and wary of the two Drow PC's in storm and Pan's series. he hasn't ever really interacted with Tath... though he's heard some things.

Berdin hates all Drow, actually was cheering for the goblins once in the goblin wasteland as he saw Owen get his behind kicked by a goblin scout.

Velian takes advantage of her situation, if theres a Drow that might be able to help her futher her goals she would be tolerant at least.

Kevor is skeptical, but trusts Rofirein to help him see through any lies.

Anyway, thats kinda how I do it... maybe some day when I am in a really bad mood I'll play Berdin and organise a purge of Hlint and the surrounding areas


Vyris

[Necromedon]

I have enjoyed playing a Drow.  Recently I have overheard many conversations concerning Drows in Hlint.
I enjoy participating in those, especially since the majority of the conversation is anti-Drow.  However,
remember that not all Drow are purely evil.  Some where raised on the surface.  Also, in the initial Drow
introduction, the Drow Goddess of Az'atta was not mentioned.  That is an aspect of Drows that many may not
know of.  She is a Goddess of compassion, of mercy even of past acts.  In fact, she was raised to Goddess
status by Aragen and Goran which are a human God and Gnome God respectively.  And, if any know of Drow,
they should realize that the Drow and Deep Gnomes are mortal enemies, killed on sight.  So to see a God of
the gnomes accept a Drow would speak volumes to many.  However, it is unlikely that a plain surface dweller
would know anything of any of the Gods of the Drow unless they had personally spoken to a Drow or through
hearsay.  They can only base their beliefs on what has been passed by generations of surface dwellers of the
Drow past.  As we all know, history changes through time, and with the short life span of most surface
dwellers, how can they be even sure that what is told as history is even the real history, and not a
cummulation of hatred towards Drows over the years, compounding their "evilness" and the supposed acts that
occurred centuries ago.  As for the recent attacks on Hlint, I cannot speak, for I know nothing of them.
However, all races threaten another form or another, it seems that the short sightedness of the surface dwellers
causes them to forget this.  

hehe, nuff said.

Necromedon

[General_Ski]

Not only would any surface dwellers know of drow god, they'd have the whole word of it, held suspect. Not to mention, the whole of information coming from drow. More to the point, one would not expect even a lore versed dwarf or human know these things about drown, since in the regular breadth of exposure to  knowledge of their race and their past they would not come to know these things. Come to think of it many an elf would probably attack drow on sight, or at least should, if they are properly brought up elves versed in the history of their peoples. And lawful good or not, does not really matter, since drow: evil enemies, daemon spawn, symbol of destruction and evil... Something mothers frighten their children with, not goblins, not kobolds... Drows...

[Ayreon]

This isn't really an issue of good drow and bad drow here....because the majority of drow Ayreon has met (including you, necro) have been good on the surface.

The issue is that several times now, drow have *IN RECENT YEARS* attacked hlint. The city is 60% human, and while humans have short life spans, they are not THAT short.

A RL example:
My grandfather served in the second World War, but the atrocities of the Nazis are still told of. See where I'm going? Hence, if there was a neonazi group in town, I would avoid them.

Humans, with their short life spans, will arguably be less apt to make the attempt at understanding drow. Generally, in any fantasy context, humans fit a more uneducated archetype (not saying they are uneducated-just less educated. they don't have the amount of hours in their lifetime to gain the knowledge of an elf or dwarf. elves,dwarves, and humans occaisionally go against the grain. hence the minor themes of diversity in many fantasy novels.)

Looks like I have to say it for the fourth time...not everyone needs to hate drow. All I am trying to say is that more people should at least be wary around them.

Sorry if my tone is comming across as angry or argumentative as well, this is not what I intend. This has been a great discussion so far. *glued to computer right now* hehe