Rust monsters theoretical inquiry

[General_Ski]

As far as I know in RL silver does not rust. Would silver lining theoretically protect weapons against rust monsters?

[Variable]

I think that a weapon would still be destroyed because a silver coating is very thin and a blow from a monster would most likely knock a hole in the coating to reach the base metal.

[Gilrod]

Silver most definitely rusts.  That is why it tarnishes (formation of a silver oxidate).

Silver just doesn't fall to pieces like iron or steel because it rusts at a way slower rate than the other metals.  Gold actually rusts too, but its rate of oxidation is even slower than silver.

I guess this theorehtical inquiry would require figuring out how much a rust monster speeds up the oxidation process.

I would not believe that silver or platinum things (platinum rust really slow too) should be immune to the monster, but as items, they should receive a higher saving throw before becoming useless.

My two cents....

[EdTheKet]

Actually, it does. In chemistry, rust is "to become coated with oxide". 
  When iron becomes coated with oxide (i.e. rusts), it reacts with the oxygen in the air.
  However, any metal can react with oxygen, including silver, it's just not very prone to do. Under normal circumstances, silver doesn't. However, this is a rust monster we're talking about, so sure, why wouldn't the silver rust

[General_Ski]

Continuing this purely theoretical discussion. Speaking of weapons falling apart.. then.. things like a spear/trident./two-bladed sword, should theoretically lose their metal parts and not shafts, leaving a crude, less damaging, but still wieldy remainder of the weapon (namely a staff), should this not be so? (this mostly pertains to an offline D&D campaign a friend of mine is running, obviously in all cases DM has the final word).

Edited:
As far as Layo goes, it never hurts to carry a wooden stick, just hope not to run into a buzz saw, ermmm.. termites...

2nd Edit just read up something on silver, it tranishes not because of oxidation, but because of exposure to ozone, something one can hardly expect rust monsters having access to:
http://www.scescape.net/~woods/elements/silver.html

3rd edit, a little something else on silver:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

4th Edit: Ah finally found something on Silver corrosion.. Seems like copper and silver do not mix well..
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corrsilver.htm

[EdTheKet]

There are small levels of ozone in the air. It gets produced from oxygen when it is hit with a certain type of ultraviolet.
  (And yes, I have a chemistry degree).

[Gilrod]

Listen to Ed...

I have a polictical science degree!

(seriously, I took a total of 3 full years of college chemistry before surrending to the social sciences, Ed is on the money!)

[General_Ski]

It's not ozone in the air that I was doubting. It's presence ozone in the rust monsters in deep underground locations.

[EdTheKet]

Maybe it's antenna is a catalyst, forming free oxygen radicals from the oxygen in the air, making them superreactive, oxidizing (aka rusting) every metal it touches.

[Dorganath]

You know you guys are debating the physics behind a fictitious creature, right?

[Force_of_Will_]

NWN= Fantasy game ,so that means what is fact in our world might not be so in NWN(D&D).
I view Rust monsters as magical beasts with a magic rust attack.

[Gilrod]

Why not?

I think it would be cool to revamp the rust monster's atennae to have a electric spark to signify the production of higly concentrated ozone. It would make sense if a subterranian rust eating monster could do this, or if it depended on the natural formation of rust it would likely starve to death.

 Ozone is HIGHLY reactive at sea level (with it's increased pressure) and will oxidize just about anything, including lung tissue if exposed long enough.

As to debating the physics, isn't that how this thread started?  Debating the physics of silver rusting I believe.

Look at it like Star Trek.  When Star Trek the Next Generation started, Universal hired a bunch of theoretical physicists to work out how the technology works.  With a few exceptions (including the assumptions made in Warp Physics and that silly Antimatter conversion within a dilithium crystal) most of the technology and astro-physical phenomenon in the show was soundly rooted in theoretical physics.  The greatest leaps the show made was creating make-believe materials the machines are made of.

FOR EXAMPLE:
- the U.S. Airforce has successfully tested an engine (in a wind tunnel) that could operate at the edge of the atmospere (upper stratosphere) and attain speeds near Mach 4.  THe problem is that material engineering has not solved the problem of what to make such an aircraft out of in order to keep it from disentigrating when it attains such speeds.  Food for thought.

[General_Ski]

Yeah, electical antenaes sounds good, as well as additional electrical damage perhaps.

Edit: Well, oxidizing lungs is not the same as oxidizing wood. Our blood contains a lot of iron. And there are hundreds capillaries close to lungs, using iron to transport oxygen, I believe. Thus this kind of oxidation is not in doubt. What I am doubting is disintegration of non-metal parts of the weapon. So the metallic parts will rust off, a wooden stick will still be a wooden stick. Metal part of a flail or an ax will rust off still leaving you with a stick.
Now having all the weapons be breakable against any monsters has a little more realistic effect, especially higher the ac or resistances the more chances of breaking. Can't have it done only on critical hits, since, that would ruin weaponmasters as a class. On the other hand, if that happens on devastating critical.. Well.. You get your kill, but you lose yer sword. But then the whole thing would just look Diabloesque.


Anyhow, back to oxidation.. What about non-metal parts of armor? Also theoretically, scalemail is very vulnerable to underneath thrusts, while chainmail to arrows, as far as plate, well striking unprotected, joint areas seems good.. Worked with halberds and pikes at least.

[Diamondedge]

Okay. Gold rust is way cool. It's all green 'n' stuff. Right?

Toying with silver oxidates is my job. I'm a trumpeter.

Pepsi shall forever remain better than coke.

And I think if a rust monster rusts your weapon to pieces, the rust, er, happens at such an incredible fast rate that whatever is left behind is also flimsy and useless. Huuuge chemical reaction going on likely hurts the wood. *nod*

[Dorganath]

ST:TNG -> Theory and science
NWN/D&D -> FANTASY & MAGIC
 
Sorry...the physical laws we know and love get thrown out the window when magic is involved.
 
But, since we're trying...
 
If a rust monster had a super-intense electrical discharge flowing between its antennae, then it would also have to do electrical damage to anything that came within a certain radius, whether it makes an attack or not.  Especially those wearing metal armor, as electricity always takes the path of least resistance to ground.
 
More than likely, the rust monster employs some form of an extremely concentrated oxidizing agent or catalyst capable of the rapid oxidation of most, if not all, types of metal.  This is most likely a secretion from the creature's skin, and like poisonous frogs who secret highly concentrated toxins, the rust monsters are immune to any negative effects of these secretions.

[General_Ski]

So it'd be electric rust monsters what's wrong with that.. I mean the electrecute victims in metal armor then eat the armor.

[Dorganath]

How about EEEEEvil electric rust monsters with lasers mounted to their frickin' heads?

[General_Ski]

Uh.. Not sure about lasers. But negative energy rays, sure thing.

[Lalaith Va'lash]

I come home having.. not such a great day.. So I go to the forums and read this thread..
  *giggles*  Just had to say Thanks.. this whole thread truly just made my day.
  and this.. -->
 

Dorganath - 7/27/2005 7:20 PM How about EEEEEvil electric rust monsters with lasers mounted to their frickin' heads?

  hehe. thats what really made me smile.
  LV

[General_Ski]

Oh yeah and all this would make rust monsters immune to electric and negative enegry stuff.

Edit: but this means they should not attack anyone not carrying/wearing metal stuff, since all theya re after is metal... They shuld probably attack all npcs who were metal as wellas pcs and I bet they'd just have one big feast on metal golems..