Player Vendors

[Leanthar]

I think a few of you probably remember just how buggy and abused the system was and that is why we yanked it out of the game.  But I want to get one back in the game--however with some severe limitations.  Here is my proposal at this time, input please.  Also--I need to find a good player vendor script, one that works very well for PW's.
  + Player Vendors will be placed in the world by the content team.  Probably one-three per building max.  Merchant buildings will have 2, some taverns 1 (not all), some temples 1 (not all), and player run stores 3.  They can not be placed by players--this will help us to spread out the areas that have inventory loading etc.
  + Player vendors will cost 35,000gp to hire.  I am doing this so that players will not purchase a vendor just for storage--like it used to be used for.  Since the player is forking out a good amount of gold at the beginning hopefully they will try to sell items, not use it to store junk.
  + Player vendors will only take 10%-15% of each purchase.
  + Player vendors will not charge a cost per item.  This may change if players start using them for storage.
  + If a player vendor is abused (breaking rules that will be established) the vendor will be deleted and all items placed on the vendor lost.
  This is by no means a promise that they are coming because I still need to find some that work in a PW, perhaps the old one we used has been updated--we will see.
  The cost of a vendor also means that only the more established players will likely be the ones purchasing a vendor.  As far as I am concerned that is a good thing because by the time they can afford a vendor they will know the community and the rules of the server as well as hopefully understand that we want to protect the RP atmosphere of the world.
  Input please.

[miltonyorkcastle]

It certainly would make it easier for a crafter's customers to buy things, since we have so many players from all different timezones, and finding the one selling the item you want can be difficult at times.  However, I do like that inaccessability to a degree.  It adds to the cost, the prestige, of having said magic item.  Player vendors will make magic items far more accessible, even at the high cost in gold that many of the items come with.  I fear some players will become more concerned about garnering the gold to buy that sweet adamantium armor than building up the reputation of someone who would own such fantastic armor.  Maybe I am just being paranoid.  I like Layo, for everything it is, especially the RP, and the real challenge it is to become 'great.'  I must admit, though, I would certainly like the ease they will bring to getting my hands on the items I want.

Now to my questions.  I have planned a meeting this Tue. (see player calendar and http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16436&posts=13) to discuss some sort of resource store. Hence, my question is, could these player vendors be not only for completed items, but for resources to be bought and sold from?  That would also make crafting in a strong crafting community so much easier, and would solve the issue of devising resource stores.  I also doubt you would ever have to worry about these resource player vendors becoming over-full, since there is a constant demand for nearly all resources, unlike many magic items.  Of course, this, once again, would make magic items that much more accessible, because it would ease the crafting experience, hence allow for more magic items to be produced.

Okay, if I think of anything else, I'll post again  

[Frendh]

I wouldn't mind if they were not implemented.

As it is now, it can be hard to get hold of the
player merchant you first contacted. So if you
are in a hurry you need to do more research
and ask around who else can provide the same
items/service, which leads to more interaction.

But using the vendors will be a good way to
raise the prices on items that are being sold
since you can adjust the percentage they take
from each sale.

One way, but probably not a good way, would
be to limit the vendors to only those who
own a house key. Either a copy or an original.
Since they will likely not need to use the
vendor for storage space.

[Lalaith Va'lash]

I really like the rp and the bartering that often goes into a sale between 2 pc's Even if somtimes its just a quick interaction, other times you can learn the story of the item, its history, and as a newer player..  you meet another char.
  My only concern is that much of this might be lost on player vendors.  (Though I am not 100% sure how they work.. )
  Also, with player run things like the Orc bashers shop and now more recently the Lelion arms venders every week (where anybody can sell that wants to, talk to Quin and Derrick), I think there are other options that are much more involved and rp oriented that pc's could do. 
  Like, another server I played on had a trade fair.. a scheduled event every month where many people came, and sold and traded their goods, it was a lot of fun too.  We could also have scheduled auctions done IG, and the best part is, all these things could be player run events placed on the player events calander.
  Just a thought anyway, it really wouldn't bother me either way, since Lalaith is to poor to buy anything.. hehe
  LV 

[IDii]

I liked player vendors... Well not the lag though, but if we can just bring in the positive things it would be cool.

I remember I could just take my new character shopping... look through all the vendors and decide what to gather gold for. It was cool.

And it doesn't really take away from PC interaction since the vendors take the 15%... so most people would say they'd sell the item cheaper than their vendor if you contacted them personally.

Yeah, RPing sales are nice but that's not always available for everyone. There's the odd hours you sometimes play and some people are restricted to hours some people aren't online. So if you want to get an item now and not wait for 30 hours, these work nice... And this kind of system doesn't mean you can't like have a bazaar day or sell your stuff yourself in an event. Just makes you able to sell things while you're not on and allows others to buy from you when you're not on, even people who don't play during the same times.

It was a great way to find out what items were available out there and for sale though. I liked it...

[Ar7]

I really loved the vendors myself. I craft a lot and due to my timezone it was often difficult to find enough customers. But I have a suggestion, to please the people who just want to go out and buy, and the people who wish to find the crafter and arrange a special deal through interraction and RP.

I remember that you could change the price that the vendor asked for each item. This actually led to an awful economy as players lowered the prices to sell more. Now I would suggest that this option would be turned off and the vendors would automatically ask 150-200% for every item they sold. That way, if somebody wanted an item as quickly as possible, they would go and buy one from a vendor, paying more for the speed. Such a system would still encourage RP as not many would be willing to pay double, these people would contact the crafter and meet with him IC.

But there is one thing that concerns me. Right now there are set prices for most of the items and the economy is going along nicely. But if vendors are introduced, they will set prices the same way the pricing lense sets them. That could cause A LOT of trouble and mess up the economy again.

[Synpox]

I remember the player vendors were great for browsing and seeing the types of items being sold and I'd love to see em make a comeback. But I wouldnt use them for selling because there can be some really fun rp in haggling and watching the buyer sweat.
-Al

[Eight-Bit]

I feel they're unnecessary. And regardless of the rules someone will always break them. Does anyone recall when there was a large sign outside of the market, and the bright yellow paragraph of server text which clearly stated the rules as you entered? And how many times a day did I have to take away from time I could be running a quest to kill, or maintain the vendors of people who are clearly unable to read the simple guidelines.

[Leanthar]

"...Does anyone recall when there was a large sign outside of the market, and the bright yellow paragraph of server text which clearly stated the rules as you entered? And how many times a day did I have to take away from time I could be running a quest to kill, or maintain the vendors of people who are clearly unable to read the simple guidelines..."
  Yeah, I certainly remember that time and your efforts and how disgusted I was that players obviously ignored the rule (not all but a fair amount).  That was the final straw and what caused them to get ripped out.

[Germaine Lorn]

Good question this.  I was wondering if vendors could be implemented as merchants with limited times of day, week, month, etc..  In major cities some permanent merchants could be available, with limits on numbers as Leanthor stated.  After all to get a prime slot would you need a license/permission?

In smaller towns there could be once a week, month markets.  Maybe with vendors licenses bought one a one off to a monthly/yearly license.  Players could still buy and sell as individuals but this could be increasingly seen as the black market, particularly in items that it would be illegal to sell in a stall/shop.  [I quite like the idea that some items would be illegal or require special permission to sell.(maybe quest earned permission)  This might help maintain the rarity of magic items.

Certain merchants might be only alloud to sell particular products.  The licensing of merchant may be backed up by a guild, with all the strongarm tactics that such guilds may employ to wayward, non-guild, PC's.  

Mary Blood Axe

[Mr. Tee]

Germaine Lorn - 8/19/2005  4:40 PM

In smaller towns there could be once a week, month markets.  Maybe with vendors licenses bought one a one off to a monthly/yearly license.

Mary Blood Axe

Now that would be cool!

Imagine 25 people gathering at a small Hlint market once a week or month doing their shopping "Hey what did you get?" "Wow neat!" "I think I'm going to save up for that one" etc... It would be almost like the local street market gatherings they have in many cities in Europe (if you've been to Firenze in Italy you'll know precisely what I imagine). This would also increase the worth of (not "gold value", more like appreciation for) player made items since they'd only be available a limited time.

Let's say, the vendors should be available for a whole 24 hours on their day so that everyone regardless of timezone can shop.

However, reading the previous posts it is clear the venders were abused a lot... The rules posted in the first post seem to me to be fool-proof, but then again I've got no experience with vendors.

[Vyris]

My personal feeling is that despite RL timezones, if there is a need for a merchant at a specific time the players here have been outstanding at trying to be available for purchases, there are several players that have joined together in 3-4 different groups that sell items, if the demand is there that could grow.

I feel the players are handling the economy well enough, and that introducing the merchants again would undermine the RP efforts of the people who have worked hard to establish themselves as merchants for goods. We have the trade hall on the forums as well as IG resources for players to call on, and I would rather leave the ability to sell items the way it is.

For those that may be in a time zone where less business is available for thier wares I think partnering with a trustworty individual or two in slightly different time zones may facilitate the sale of thier wares.


Vyris

[Rhino]

Ohhh, If you could place a wendor in a craft house...imagine all the money you could earn on simple stuff.

But aside from that I like the player vendor idea, how many can realy offer a greenstone set in copper (almost everybody i guess) but honest, how easy is it to get a hold of that player and purchase the ring for.....300gold?
I would not go through the truble of finding a buy/sale by PM for those kind of products...
I guess and hope this will open the market for "lesser products".

-Naglor

[Gunther]

Well, speaking a someone who is working on their armorsmithing skills and would like to sell their goods, I really dont want a partner or multiple partners at this stage.  Right now I'm storing armor in my house in several different chests.  Prior to getting lucky enough to find and emerald and buy a house, I was storing armor in the bank and on my cow.  It'd also be great to have a vendor sell stuff, especially as I mostly play on weekends.

[lonnarin]

I hated them with a passion when we last had them.  They caused too much server lag and it was so frustrating to walk into a room with upwards of 40-50 of them all looking the same that I never used one.  Even with a high amount of gold required for one, we'd still likely see a huge population of identical twin vendors that folk would have to run around blindly to, one by one, just to find what they're looking for.

I've always felt that the hands on approach of dealing from player to player was best; if somebody wants their own personal vendor, they can always hire another player to do so.  The player to player method also helps keep RP heavy, as some players simply do not want their wares being sold to drow or other fell beings.  (Bjorn currently gives a 50% discount to other dwarves and charges TRIPLE to any elf variety, except for Talan, who he considers a tall, skinny, shaven dwarf )

If we do re-establish player vendors, I'd like the price hiked on hiring one at around a 100k investment, and limit them solely to already established, standing shops like the Orcbasher's in Hlint. (who never seem to have somebody working when I knock)

[teefal]

wouldn't it be more RP to have PCs "hire" vendors on an hourly/daily/monthly basis?  
The markup would go to the player, not the vendor, since the player is already getting charged for the vendors time.  

Given a limited number of booths (as stated above), there would be competition for them ... prices get higher as demand increases.  I'd love to be able to outbid another player for a vendor.  Offer them more money to get an existing time slot for a booth.

As for storage, it'd be sweet if you could somehow link a vendor to your house storage .. assume that the vendor could go fetch an item to replenish stock.  This solves the problem of using vendors as storage .. they contain nothing that's not already contained elsewhere.  If a vendor gets outbid, they simply switch to another player's storage chest(s).

Yes, I know, the script don't exist   Spec'ing requirements for new software projects is my day job, so I tend to run the gamut.

[Guardian 452]

I did all I could to keep the vendors afloat in the early stages of V2. I cleaned them each day of crap.... I made a forum thread and thos ethat went unpaid for X amount of time were removed.... etc... it was allot of work but as the vendors used to function before they became Lag machines they were great!!!

They are great for people in off timezones, and they are great for seeing what items do, and if you want it bad enough you buy it.

For those who like to haggle you can see that a person has "X" item then you can track them down and haggle untill your blue in the face.

Thank you Leanthar for giving Player Vendors another chance. I hope the community uses them properly.


Some sugestions no clue if any of these are possible but here they are....

1.Customising your vendor (Sex, Race, clothes etc..) yeah I know thats asking allot but that would be huge if it could be done.

2. The ability for the owner to customise what the vendor says.

3. MAKE THEM SO OTHER PLAYERS CANNOT SELL STUFF TO THEM.... Nuff said on that one... hehe.

4. Make them so they will not sell raw components... having a vendor with 347 salts and Stirge wings is what killed the vendors the 1st time.



G-452

[Dorax Windsmith]

After reading everyone's opinion on the vendors, I agree with Lonnarin, I like the market now, and think it would hurt the world overall to have NPC Vendors.  The convenience probably does not outwiegh the cost.

[NEXUS7]

Why do we not have marked days
a 24 hour slot (or longer) where player venders are up and then pulled down They could be a kind of RPG barra-boy (taking lag into acount).
The Market could be any where at a preset time and all PCs could plaine for it.
The nice thing about the Pub Shop is that lots of Pcs come to one place for a time shoping but do much more.
Like Medievl towns a MArked would not just be a load of shops but an event unlike quests and preset games more a happoning.


If your stocking up ya vender then your useing it as storage but with a market you have to sell ya goods befor the your vender gos
Bargins could be had at the end (cycal the times zone to get the end of market time) and it will have a more othenic feel.
Player veneder mean you dont have to be loged on for the hole time of the market day but still flog ya stuff.

Most towns have a craft house so you could work get moe stuff and work again

[miltonyorkcastle]

After previewing everyone's comments up to this point, and having played my entire time here on Layo (since February) without player vendors, I would have to say that this idea of a market day would probably be the best use of player vendors.  They would not lag the server on a consistent basis nor could they be abused as storage units.  And I agree with everyone else: market days are sweet RP events.  Everything from guild recruitment to competitions can be taking place as the people peruse the merchants' wares.  Basically, once every two weeks or once a month there would be a festival.  The Leilon Arms has been rather successful at a small version of this, so I think we could implement this on a bigger scale.  Oh, and I think Leilon would be a perfect place to have such a fesitval, being a port town and having the Arms there.  Pranzis would also be a prime choice.  It has lots of room for shops to be set up and people to wander.  Plus, if such market days were held in Pranzis, it would encourage new players to travel more.  Alright, I've rambled enough.  See ya in game!