Ideas for less lag during quests

[Icurus]

okay, last night was a big headache as there was just way to much lag and that was probably due to way too many people when, in fact, only Rangers and Druids needed to apply.

However, I don't want to bitch about the experience but give some suggestions to making the experience less laggy and more fun for all.

1st) I suggest that letters be posted in bars (ie. shouts) that perhaps will get the people, you want, to respond and then limit the number of people that can join an quest. So, obviously if you 'shout' out a meeting place of Hlint, lots of people will show up and likely a lot of lower level people as well. A 'shout' stating a meeting place where lower level people can't get to or probably don't know about will thus get you the appropriate results.

2nd) State that only the first so many people will be allowed on the quest...fist come, first hired (if they meet stated requirements).

3rd) Maybe if you want a high level run, just state such. However, maybe if the boss, that is doing the hiring, states he can't afford those of too high a standing. So thus, you could have 6 through 10th lvl characters but nothing lower or higher.

4th) State if you want only a specific class for the quest (like Rangers and Druids) and then ask them to herald the tell of what happened or to post in bars, if it's that important.

5th) If you want an adventure to be experience by many...play the adventure out more than once with several different parties at different times. This would allow many people to experience the adventure but with different results. Obviously, this suggestion wouldn't be for those quests that are too important to the events of the world. However, if it's a request for a Dragon egg or something, there could possibly be more than one egg needed, or more than one boss looking for an egg, or the boss just likes dragon eggs for breakfast and he needs a new one everyday.    This option would also allow those that are of a unkind nature to get together an maybe highjack the whole adventure (say by taking the egg for themselves...in this example) and not worry about  too much backlash.

I hope this helps; although the scenery and story werre nice, mega-lag just sucks.

[Dorganath]

Your suggestions are good, and in most cases it is what normally happens on quests. I assume you are refering to the plot quest last night, in which case there are several reasons why things were done the way they were.
  1) This was an extremely important event in Layonara's history. It was not a druids/rangers only thing; the information given, the experience that was had, was important for as many people as possible to experience. If you want to get technical, really only one character would have been "needed" for the quest but that's not really the point. For this reason, Leanthar allowed a large group.
  2) There was no combat, it was strictly informational, and while it was a bit cumbersome to move, it was not overly detrimental to the quest or its outcome. Again, I point to #1.
  3) The reason for allowing all levels of characters was very simple. Many of the "difficult" plot quests require high-level characters from a simple survivability standpoint. However, not everything in the plot happens during times of extreme danger. This was a way to get more people invested in the plot besides those long-time characters who have been with it for a long time now.
  4) If you feel the events were confusing and hard to follow due to lag, party size, etc., then I strongly suggest (as Leanthar did as well last night) that you get together with people in-game and ask questions, discuss what happened and try to fill in the blanks.
  Last night's quest was huge in many ways. it's actually a good thing that it was big. The lag was bad, yes, but what was learned was worth the trouble, in my opinion.

[twidget658]

Please don't cuss in the forums. Thanks, my kids play here too.

They are at that age that they know that it is not appropriate but will try it to see if they can get away with it.

[Leanthar]

"...okay, last night was a big headache as there was just way to much lag and that was probably due to way too many people when, in fact, only Rangers and Druids needed to apply..."

Sorry you feel that way but that is far from the truth.

I warned everybody MUTLTIPLE times last night, before the quest and during it that lag would be bad--and that is why there was no combat.

I suppose this comes back to the point of I am in a no-win situation. Players say 'only high level players can be on a plot quest' (which I have proven multiple times is incorrect--but it still comes back from time to time).  Then players say invite everybody--well then you have lag.  Last night I allowed level 6 and above only, truth-be-told it should have been open for everybody but I don't think the server could have handled another 10-20 players....

So... The team does the best we can with what we have. No matter what decision we make in questing and who/what is allowed it is usually 'wrong'. *shrugs*

[Leanthar]

"...5th) If you want an adventure to be experience by many...play the adventure out more than once with several different parties at different times. This would allow many people to experience the adventure but with different results. Obviously, this suggestion wouldn't be for those quests that are too important to the events of the world. However, if it's a request for a Dragon egg or something, there could possibly be more than one egg needed, or more than one boss looking for an egg, or the boss just likes dragon eggs for breakfast and he needs a new one everyday.  This option would also allow those that are of a unkind nature to get together an maybe highjack the whole adventure (say by taking the egg for themselves...in this example) and not worry about too much backlash...."

As to this.... well I only have so much time in a day, week, month, year, and well--real life.  I do not allow the MAJOR (IE unplayed/unfolded) plot stuff to be run by other GM's because they are involved in the plot. It wouldn't be much fun for them to have the plot ruined for them. What I do allow to happen is when certain things happen in the plot the other GM's can (and do) run plot related quests that I then incorporate the outcomes in to the major plot stuff that I run.  I am not going to run the 'same plot session' multiple times. I don't have the time and that is a mere fact.

[Leanthar]

Oh and again on the ranger/druid thing....it was the T'oleflor--they are about nature and thusly respect nature and all things nature related--that is what they are and what they are about.

As I shouted (again multiple times last night) this quest was leading up to for 3.5 years--I am NOT going to tell the old timers to sit out... nor am I going to tell other players they can't come because they are new or not involved. It is my job to try and get them involved.

I will say it again, there is only so much I/we can do with the nwn system.

[SuperMunch]

Well, as a newbie that plays Layonara for the role playing (I play a Bard that's a chicken - redundant but necessary to point out), I loved last night's events.

I tried to play it as someone thrown into a very strange situation (I was in Velensk "feeding the chickens" when I "noticed" the crowd) and acted as such.  Like it or not, I saw and hear something that will shake the world - I saw myself as the little girl running in the Zapruder Movie, of no historical importance, but I was there.

In a few minutes I'm gonna start Freldo's version of what happened and I'll build on top of it as I, player, actually READ the handbook.  Freldo's a smart guy, but a bit lazy so I can consider my player actions reflecting Freldo's actions - which is why I'm not going online for a few days, Freldo's studying at home (which Ozy suggested, and since he respects Ozy, he's doing just that).

Anyway...

The lag was terrible, I got lost in T'oleflor and was unusually quiet as a character (for those that have talked to Freldo, he doesn't shut up and saying nonsense) but it was so worth my sitting around the PC and having Freldo bicker with Grympint (a nice little spat) and try not to laugh at Pendar's attempt at jokes.

I really enjoyed the event and I'm in most of the screenshots so, like I said, I feel like the little girl in the Zapruder Movie, I can say I was there when Leanthar's world took a twist based on it's inhabitant's actions.

Also, there's an added bonus, as a bard I'll be able to tell stories of what happened (thusly acting like a story teller) through my own peril-senstive goggles - oh yes, I wear those all the time.

It was laggy and slow sometimes but I think it was totally worth it (and totally worth my wife being upset, she forgave me when I made her a sushi dinner tonight).

Thanks Leanthar for the oportunity to just tag along and get to know the names of a lot of the major characters (even if they do not know mine), once again the XP earned at the end was the cherry on the icing on the cake that was being in a such a great event.

[egoober]

As L says, this is one of the areas in which the DM team just can’t seem to win. Whenever a major “plot” related event takes place, it’s going to be heavily subscribed (I counted 50 players at one point for this latest one). With the best will in the world, the NWN engine just doesn’t scale well, so compromises have to be made.
Take a look at the calendar postings for Leanther’s quests. You’ll see that, almost without exception there are clear guided to what may happen. Those that have a need for combat, when bad lag can be fatal, are clearly described as such with level/party size caps put in place. Not to exclude people, I assume, but to minimise the lag problem. Yes, it’s frustrating to be a low to mid level character who cannot take part, but something has to be done.
In a session like this latest one, lag was never going to be fatal – so it was open to all. Yes, it could have been done differently: L could have decided to make it open to Rangers/Druids only – but that would have excluded a huge number of characters who wanted to take part. We could have been ported from location to location instead of walking, but that would have sacrificed a good deal of the immersion – and most of the flow. Besides, getting to walk the route gave a chance for pure RP that isn’t common on a quest.

I admit, I was one of the lucky ones. Although my character is neither Druid nor Ranger, he feels a connection to nature strong enough for him to want to follow the others anyway, at least for the first meeting. This was allowed to happen, so I guess it was OK. Later L specifically took the Rangers and Druids aside again, and I wasn’t included – which was fine. While they were gone, I continued to roleplay with the others left behind, which worked out fine.
To my mind, the lag experienced was unfortunate and irritating, but also unavoidable. Having said that, people got to be included, and I for one got a clearer idea of some of the world’s background. Just for the record, I think the right choices were made. I wouldn’t have stayed online till 3:30am otherwise!
Never forget, the DM team don’t have any more free time that the rest of us. What they do for the world eats into that time enormously. Ever got home of an evening and thought “I’m just to tired to play tonight”? I bet most of us have, but a DM can’t. They commit to run these events for us, and repeating the same event several times just isn’t feasible for them, I expect. Besides, that presents it’s own problems for RP as well.

Just my 2 pence worth

[OneST8]

Well said egoober. Well said.

[Icurus]

I think some of you guys think I'm complaining here. No, this is as I said, stating suggestions. That's all.

That being said, I did hear from others that were impressed by the maps but were gripping about the lag and lack of involvement. That's it. So it's not' "damned if you do, damned if you don't," as some state, but understanding that everybody just can't possibly be involved in all quests and that it is okay to exclude due to internal or external issues. It's not like your telling people they have to stop playing on Layonara.

I think people would be okay to just hear of the events there after.

[Dorganath]

I'd just like to reiterate that this particular plot quest was less about direct involvement and more about information and being present for one of the largest and most important events that has happened in the world of Layonara and in the current campaign plot over the last several RL years.
  Allowing lots of people on the quest allowed them to be witness to this event and then later RP, investigate and find out what it all meant and why it's important. The trade-off for being inclusive in this very pivotal event was the lag. It's unfortunate, but at the same time for the context of this quest
  You should know that such large groups and extreme lag are not the norm for quests, not even for plot quests. This was a special case, and as far as direct involvement goes, the most important thing for most people to do on that quest was to just show up, observe and listen...and then find out more after it was all over from those who have at least a modest clue why it was so important.

[Acacea]

I'm more willing to deal with lag in a situation that doesn't involve mass slaughter, than being arbitrarily excluded from world events. This goes for most of the people who do show up, understanding what it's going to be like. Rather than imposing those limits on everyone, one could simply choose not to deal with the massive lag, opting to hear of the events from others.

[merlin34baseball]

My thoughts:

I thought the whole point was to have as many people both young and old witness this event as possible.  When I saw 60+ people signed up I knew there would be huge lag, but being a newer player I knew there must be an important reason for this and thats why I signed up.  Yes the lag was bad but being able to say that I witnessed it all first hand was well worth it.  Now in game I can say I was there!  From what I've seen never is a quest open to all (60+ people!) so I'm sure there isn't that much lag all the time.  I was just happy I was able to attend and not have it limited to the higher level characters who have been here for years.  For the younger players to be fully involved in the world things like this must take place...