Never-ending kegs in guild hall taverns and mugs

[Pen N Popper]

Though I like the idea of the kegs in guild hall taverns, I would like to suggest that the drinks that come out of them are single-use and not full bottles.  Several ways to do this:

1. Make the bottles received have a single use rather than a full set of uses (some drinks have 5 charges).
2. Require the pourer to have an empty brewing bottle in inventory and on use of the keg put a single charge into an empty bottle.  (Or bartender would place the empty bottle into the keg's inventory to have a charge added.)
3. Make new CNRable mugs (made of wood, clay, or glass) that are wieldable.  Bartender must have mug in hand when using the keg and a single charge of the drink is put into the mug.  (I've seen wieldable mugs on another server so assume they're available on the vault.)

Choice number two seems the most reasonable to implement.  This removes the "free" brewing bottle that comes from the kegs too.

Another reason for single use is just that sometimes it's just not possible to finish off a full bottle due to not being thirsty enough.

[Dorganath]

A little explanation on how the kegs work might be in order.
  The kegs don't have inventory, they have a conversation. The price is set in code as is the drink it returns. These are all standard drinks with standard "charges" and standard quenching abilities. The kegs take gold from the pourer, and only a fraction of the gold taken by the kegs actually makes it back into the hands of the owner.
  Now, on the single-use thing....we'd either have to make a single-use drink in the toolset or tag the standard drinks on creation to have only one charge. The first is not preferred and the second is possible, but the question is: Why?
  Think about reality a moment. How often do you get a drink at a bar or restaurant and finish it in one drink? Not very often, I'd guess.
  I don't see why we'd limit them to one drink. The Leilon Arms, which sells drinks that were actually crafted, sells normal drinks with more than one use. Really, there's no difference between these two scenarios, except that in one the drinks are crafted, and in the other they're created through a system. But they're both taverns, and they're both selling essentially the same thing.

[miltonyorkcastle]

I like the idea of mugs, actually, but I don't find the issue all that demanding currently, so I'll have to go with Dorg on this one and say for RP it still works to be able to take more than one sip off your drink.  Though it'd be really cool to have, like, your own personal mug... for dwarves, it could be like a family heirloom...

[Lalaith Va'lash]

Dorganath - 3/21/2006 10:07 AM
  I don't see why we'd limit them to one drink. The Leilon Arms, which sells drinks that were actually crafted, sells normal drinks with more than one use. Really, there's no difference between these two scenarios, except that in one the drinks are crafted, and in the other they're created through a system. But they're both taverns, and they're both selling essentially the same thing.
   

 I have a feeling why Pen was bringing the issue up, has more to do with the crafting of drinks vs. obtaining them from a system. Somthing like that, where the samedrinks are offtered, at the same price, makes it easier for people to buy drinks without going through a crafter.
  I do not mean to rant, as I think the Freelancers have a good thing going, and.. I am friends IC, and OOC with many of them. As such, I have tried very hard to bite my tounge on this issue. However the Leilon Arms was brought into this, so I would like to bring up what we do....
  Derrick, Kali and Jharl spend countless hours, gathering things to brew and bake for the inn. So do other crafters. Derrick spends a week breawing and preparing, just so we can have enough ale and food for one night at the arms, or one event that we cater.
  We also outsource, buying drinks from other crafters, and food from other bakers at times so we can have enough. We sell them at a reasonable price, so that after buying, bottles, yeast, sugar, whatever, we barely make coin off from it. BUT, the coin isn't the point.
  The Leilon Arms, is now, and always has been for Kali, and for the others, a labour of love. We do it for the RP, we do it for the players, and we do it because it is fun. But.. it takes a LOT of time and work to prepare for an opening each week.
  I understand that the system created for taverns that produce ale, has an intial investment, sure. But from my point of view, there is a difference.The limit would be so that people couln't buy a ton, of a limitless supply and nix the whole craft of brewing.
  I apologize in advance for this post. To both the freelancers and Dorganath.
  LV

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Heh, with enough gold, there'd be as little point to brewing as there is to forging copper and hickory weapons. It's much easier to get together 200 gold than it is to get five lumps of clay and three ingots of copper; by the same token, it's easier to get together 250 gold than hops, limestone powder, etc.

[Pen N Popper]

Well, I don't know officially how the Freelancer's tavern will work, but from my brief conversations with Seteece and others this is what I think will happen:

1. Pig will brew the "missing" beverages to round out the selection of drinks.
2. Pig will organize player-led events to "shop" for foodstuffs for the tavern.  This could be anything from roasts and pies to raw ingredients to juices.  My suggestion was that I would OOCly seek out lower level players to purchase this from to encourage CNR in cooking as well as get them some coins (for buying drinks :-) ).

Unless you thoroughly enjoy the crafting preparation required for an opening, it would seem to make sense to get a similar system in other player-run taverns.  That way more time is freed for RP.

The Freelancer tavern also has the disadvantage of location:  How many low levels want to fork out coin for a roundtrip boat ticket?  I know some will disagree, but the Lleilon Arms has a prime location for mucho player traffic at events.  (Even better is the Orc Basher's store in Hlint... where are those folks?)

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Gloin shows up every now and again; Cynn bought a suit of iron halfplate from the Orc Basher's shop just yesterday.

As for the round-trip, it's only 80 gold. You can make that in five minutes in Hlint's crypts, easy.

I do very much agree about the Crafting/RP time, though.

[Dorganath]

@Lalaith:  The Freelancer's Keg prices are at least 15% above the prices at the Arms, and they only get to keep a small fraction of that price. Trust me when I tell you that the Leilon Arms was key in our thought process when implementing this in its current form. And it will continue to be so, as we determine whether or not we have the right balance.
  I would also add that this system is in its infancy, and we are trying to avoid undercutting those who actually craft their own drinks by those who do not. We may rebalance this system as time goes on. We need to see how it all works or doesn't work.  
  Lastly, the idea of limits on the kegs is something that has been conceptualized, and would be ultimately persistent and based upon the various harvests in a given region....and essentially, part of a much, much bigger system.

[freemen2]

No need to apologize Lal
And we will never sell massive amount of booze to players so they can drink it outside of the Tavern *shrugs* actually if the team is worried about that, then if fesable, place a tag on drinks that come from a Tavern kegs to dissapear like the room keys do once you exit the tavern, if that's possible.
Like P&P stated, we do craft and gather what the kegs don't supply in drink, even if it's only 2, we had planned since having noticed they where missing from the selection to do it as well as different kind of foods.
But we have a different view on getting the ressources, we want to try to get the new members or soon to be members involved in this as well as outsiders *shrugs*