RANT

[Delta7]

I'm angry at some of you players. My character Cronk is a half-giant warrior. He works hard mining and making armor. Sometimes when he is filled up with armor he has a road sale in Hlint. He typically sets 2-3 samples of his goods on the ground outside the smithy and often people RP with him about the items. Someone who wants it will generally RP with Cronk and he gives it to them for a small price or even free. This is all IC and part of Cronks RP due to his low intelligence and inability to speak well.

Yet apparently this really PISSES off some players. I get all kinds of nasty tells about how I am lagging the server and all this trash on the ground etc etc. Some players even feel there OOC is more important than Cronks RP. Had one player last night pick up all the armor and shields and run over to the trash can and dump them in it, then sent me a few unfriendly tells about how i'm lagging the server and that he is justified in throwing my stuff away. Cronk had some really good RP going in Hlint last night. Some people were receiving his armor and shields for free and they were happy. It was all ruined once some players saw the "trash" on the ground and started sending me nasty tells.

Are 2-3 items on the ground really having that big effect on the server? What is the difference between items in your inventory and on the ground? Does the server not still have to track all items in the game?

Sincerly

[Blackguy]

No 2-3 items on the ground is not a big deal. But if everyone thinks that, then you suddenly have a whole server clutting up, with people leaving stuff on the ground, making the server less stable than they already are. Other point is the selling of armors for less money than they are worth oe giving them away, thats just plain bad for the economy. Even if Cronk did have a low intelligence than it dont justifie for you makeing the decision, about certain rules. You sound like a smart guy, and im sure if someone told you nice to have removed thoise armors you would have. And I can understand your reaction about that person that picked up your armos and jujst threw them away. that person shouild have asked you first, or atleast consulted with a DM, and still then, its not up to the players to be "police". Last thing is that your taking a big risk with leaving your armors on the ground, The cleanup script will remove them after a while, so you should properly find a better way to sell your items. Post a message on the Trade Forum, and RP that you have a bard payed to write it for you. Just some suggestions.

[FlameStrike]

Dropping items on the floor indeed causes lag and should be avoided if possible.

 Also, handing out items for free or even selling them for a much lower price to other players hurt considerably the economy of the server, despite your good intentions. I don't mean you shouldn't help other players, but these should be avoided, as part of the fun you have ingame is to earn the items yourself, at least that's how i think. For instance, i value much more an item i worked hard to afford, than one that was simply handed out to me, sentimental value plays it's part in this situation.

 However, other players shouldn't be aggressive as you describe. Even if the items were on the ground, i don't think they have the right to pick them up and trash them. The cleanup script will eventually work if the items are on the ground for too long, they will simply vanish.

 Regarding the tells you received, no one has the right to annoy you because of some dropped items... honestly, if they vanish it will be your loss and not theirs.

[Pen N Popper]

Sounds like you need to send your log file to the GMs.  The tells and taking of your items is, in my opinion, a form of griefing.

Giving the armors away for low/free is not something any of us are allowed to do.  You may donate them to PC-run causes, donate them to temples, sell to pawnshop, or throw away yourself.  (As I understand it.)

There are merchant tables in the Freelancer Tavern for merchants to use.  (Yes, you won't have any customers nor any RP nor any sales. :-) )

Hope everything works out for you.

[Pen N Popper]

Oh, one idea for a way for your PC to set prices is to use the dice emotes.  For example, if you have a bronze longsword that sells for 1500 (per Raven's prices) then you might just make the price "1000 + 1d10 * 100" so it could range from 1100 to 2000.  Always a fun way to sell things and often leads to negotiations (on high rolls) and ready acceptance (on low).  This will keep your PC from having to be able to count but still keep prices realistic.

[Weeblie]

I think a +/- 25% of the price is quite accepted...

[regnus]

I just want to set things straight here about the nasty tells that you are alleging.

Here is a copy from my log:
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:04:54] Goraaz Rushank: [Tell] did you leave this stuff on the ground?

[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:06:29] Goraaz Rushank: [Tell] leaving stuff on the ground causes lag.  There is a trash can right there.
//Here Goraaz picks up the items

[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:06:42] Cronk : [Tell] I know this...I was having a road sale
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:06:54] Cronk : [Tell] it was 3 items

[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:08:16] Goraaz Rushank: [Tell] not really the point.  West is already laggy as it is.  I'm not yelling but anything that causes lag is something we try to avoid.

[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:08:22] Lost Item: Copper Chain Shirt
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:08:30] Lost Item: Copper Chain Shirt
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:08:46] Lost Item: Large Copper Shield

[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Mon May 08 22:08:47] Cronk : [Tell] alrighty



Now, looking back at that I probably should have bartered the items back to you.  That was my bad.  If you want, I will replace them or reimburse you from Goraaz's bank account.  

Let's be honest here, though.  There were no nasty tells from me and if you look at the time stamps,  nearly 2 minutes passed between when I picked the items up and when I threw them in the trash can.  I did not just run by, grab them and run straight to the trash can.

West was pretty bad last night as evidenced by the reboot by Dorganath.  Things like placing items on the ground don't help.  Yes it was 3 items, but what if someone else on the other side of the area though the same thing?  Then someone on Hlint Eastside thought that too?

The point being, if you know that something causes lag, please avoid doing it.

Let me know if you want the items replaced or reimbursed.

[Delta7]

Well you were not the only person talking to me about lag and placing items on the ground.I did not mention any names or imply you personally. Also I think you should have identified yourself as a DM. You might have found that I would have asked you a few questions and this whole mess could have been avoided.

[Talan Va'lash]

I'm familiar with the "road sale" type thing and had lots of fun doing exactly that on other servers before I came to layo.

However, as has been pointed out, layo has a cleanup script (not sure why you didn't encounter it sooner) that will remove items on the ground (some areas seem to be exempt or less active with this script.)

The really nice thing about the items on the ground method, is that anyone can just walk up and right click - examine the item and you don't have to barter it to every joe that wants a look, and more than one person can look at once.  If its understood what you're doing you also don't have to continually yell or emote holding a sign saying you're selling stuff.

I think that 3 items on the ground for this purpose is absolutely fine, if the player doing it accepts he may lose them at any time due to the cleanup script.

but... obviously this is not the best route for selling things.  A way to do this would be to quickslot an emote saying that several armors are laying on the ground and that you're yelling "ARRMUUURS" or something.

The misunderstanding that occured is that more often than anyone trying to do a road sale, people just drop the heavy junk they're carrying on the ground to get rid of it, with no intention of continuing their posession of it.  That seems to be what regnus thought had happened.  A tell reading "Hey!  Thats my stuff."  sent to him would likely have sorted the whole buisness. heh

[Acacea]

Hehe, I think it was implied that it was his stuff when he said "I was having a road sale."


(Edit- Agreed on the just emoting that they're on the ground, particularly since you're not going to have those "cleaned up" rather quickly. No lag, no clean up.)

[PsychicToaster]

It was my understanding that the lag from items wasn't from just a few things, but that quite a few people had lots of items stored on the ground in their houses.  A few items isn't going to slow the server down.  And certainly not more than a player character that is actually moving and interacting with the world will.  

[Talan Va'lash]

Well, the real comparison is 3 items vs 20 ogre corpses on the ground in every area that people are fighting things.  This is why the corpse decay time has been set so short once the corpse container no longer has items in it.

People RPing isn't a big impact (and one thats worth it)

People dumping 50 raven feathers that they don't want to carry around on the ground and leaving them gets to be a very substantial impact if this is acceptable behaviour for everyone on the server.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Well, if you've only got one item, I imagine it would be less laggy to set it on the ground, rather than buy a chest and dump it in there, but I'm no coder.

As for the street sales... Narc's server used to have plenty of those, but there was no player housing, MANY fewer NPCs... Fewer PCs, for that matter. Here at Layo, our richer world also gives us a tendancy for more lag, so... Every little bit helps.

[PsychicToaster]

I was refering specifically to the street selling, not ditching trash just because you're lazy.

[xXDenizeNXx]

Great Idea just wrong way to go about it, like Acacea said emoting they are on the ground is the thing I think, also what everyone else said, can't just give stuff away thats what is wrong with the economy already, Geddrin donated 9 suits of bronze palte Mail to the Temple recently Because why pay for it when good folks like yourself are giving it away for free? I admire your sentiments but and always applaud good RP. Find a happy common ground here and continue to have your fun mate I really like Pigs idea that sounds like fun !
Peace
Den

[Pen N Popper]

Have to disagree. This is copper we're talking about. Not really a large part of the economy. While the player needs to understand the economics of higher scale goods, anyone willging to RP a street merchant deserves support rather than OOC bickering. How many of you just dump your copper wares into the trash bin. Pooh on you, I say. I'd charge you a fee for such OOCness. In fact, for every iron dagger you throw away I'd fine you a DT.

[Rayenoir]

Yes, but who are you going to fine for the constant influx of gold from nowhere that gets picked off monsters?  Bioware?

[Pen N Popper]

I'd fine... Acacea

[Dorganath]

Um...guys?
  Let's be constructive here and not nit-pick each other.
  On leaving stuff on the ground: In general it's a bad idea. The clean-up scripts were mentioned, and these will remove items from the ground and can, in some cases, remove them from your inventory if you picked them back up from the ground.  We have these scripts in place to try and keep lag down to a manageable level, as items on the ground do contribute to lag.
  Standing and *emoting* that you are showing wares is a better way to go about things in general.
  On the question of whether throwing away low-end goods...I don't think it's constructive to criticize the RP of people for doing this.  Most low-end goods have near zero market and serve largely as practice and stepping stones to greater things. For stuff that can't be sold, the options are to keep it (ultimately self-limiting), pawn it, donate it (if one has a deity and that temple is nearby) or throw it away.  Were this "real" there'd usually be another option.  For example in armor and weapon crafting, one would be able to melt down the items again and re-use their metal for other things.  However, that's not the case here if for no other reason that people would abuse that to no end.

[Icurus]

Cronk, ya given way stuff be getten on me nerves. How's a dwarf ta overprice when ya be given stuffs away fer free? Best watch it or da dwarf guild be fer chasen ya outta town. Course, ya could be fer given yer stuff away ta us dwarves. Ain't charity, as we bein sure it goin ta a noice payen customer.


I've sold copper armor for a pretty good price. Especially after players see the price the general store wants for a suit of the stuff. Besides, copper armor is better than Bronze: 80% less weight vs. 5% against bashing which means for every 20pnts you take 19pnts (if it's bashing). I'd rather have light armor, especially since my Strength isn't that great.