Poison arrow crafting

[Pen N Popper]

On the poison making bench, I would love to see the following recipe:

• 1 arrow/bolt
• 1 vial poison
• --> 1 poison arrow/bolt

 If you think of how poison works now with the really short duration it is almost like this now. Except that there is no time to actually RP or anything.
  I've read the other threads on permanent poison weapons, and am not suggesting this be extended to anything but a single arrow or bolt. No other enhancements would remain on the arrow/bolt.
  You could add an additional ingredient (like gum arabic?) if that seemed more balancing. Upping the number of arrows from one to four would also be welcome.

[darkwulf365]

Instead of the possibility of using storebought ammunition, make it a crafted arrow, of at least oak/iron and a vial of an equivalent posion (oak/iron being a decent, but middle/low end arrow, so will require a middle/low end poison).  Higher end poisons could require mahagony/platinum (or addy), and yew/cobalt (or *gasps* mithril) along with an increased poison requirement.

[Pen N Popper]

[20:44] 8ball, what's the chance of ever seeing that arrow recipe?
[20:44] ~8ball
[20:44] PenNPopper: The Magic 8 Ball States: Most likely.
[20:45] are you sure?
[20:45] ~8ball
[20:45] PenNPopper: The Magic 8 Ball States: Yes
[20:45] well *smiles* you have my thanks then

[Faldred]

I had previously suggested the possibility of crafting arrows with hollow points, so that the points could be filled with things like poison, acid, holy water, etc.  This would allow for what you are suggesting, and not just restrict it to poison making.  I imagine hollow-tip arrows would have a higher level requirement that the standard versions, to keep things balanced.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Ayup. I'm glad to see this idea revisited; Pyyran would start churning the things out like there's no tomorrow. Adding 2 Fire Damage to a hit would be wicked.

Realistically... Unless you're making them one arrow to one vial/flask, there should NOT be the full damage as from the grenadelike weapon. However, 2 damage, on a ratio of 1 flask to 20 Hollowhead Arrows, sounds good.

[darkstorme]

I REALLY like the idea of holy-water filled arrows.. but with hollowpoints, recipes could be diversified... what about a silver-tipped hollowpoint filled with a mixture of holy water and garlic?  Perfect for undead hunting.  With more complicated ingredients to fill the arrows, difficulty and damage/enhancement could go up...

So something like 20 Silver Hollowhead Arrows + 1 flask Holy water + 3 cloves garlic = 20 Enhanced Undead-Hunting Arrows

Simpler mixtures: 20 Hollowhead Arrows + 1 flask alchemist's fire/acid = 20 fire/acid arrows (perhaps powered-down a bit from the OC, but added damage regardless)

Or, more complicated: 20 Hollowhead Arrows + 1 flask alchemist's fire + 1 polished fire opal = 1 fireball arrow

20 Hollowhead Arrows + Tanglefoot Bag + Gum Arabic = 1 Arrow of Holding (on hit cast Hold Monster)

The possibilities for specialty (and correspondingly costly) arrows are virtually limitless.  Hollowhead Arrows sound like a great idea.

[Pen N Popper]

I really, really want this topic to remain about single arrow CNR.  And specifically single poison arrow CNR.

I believe other threads have touched on the other flavors and they were denied specifically because of thoughts like "start churning the things out like there's no tomorrow."

Singly crafted arrows would not be unbalancing and would primarily be used in special situations and RP.  (Or that's what I think, anyway.)

Thanks for staying on topic going forward.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

The possibilities are endless, aye, but if you fulfil all of those possibilities, that's a LOT of work for the project team. And a larger database to access, which would cause more lag.

I'm just looking for Fire, Acid, and Holy. That would already open up the market for lower-level Alchaemists and Enchanters.

[Faldred]

That would already open up the market for lower-level Alchaemists and Enchanters.

And possibly Fletchers, as the demand for the arrows may go up.

[Pen N Popper]

Focus people. I am not looking for suggestions that result in "a LOT of work for the project team." I'm asking for a single recipe with little chance of large scale unbalancing.
  Thanks!

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Ayup. But we want Fire, Acid, and Holy if we're gonna have Poison.

[darkstorme]

Fire Arrows and Acid Arrows are pre-existing items, if the development team doesn't want to design something new.  Holy would be the only addition.  The XML database might cause a LITTLE additional lag from the addition of new arrow recipes, but given over 2000 existing recipes, adding additional arrow functionality would result in a minimal increase in index time (O(lg n), anyway.)

And while I realize you're just after poison arrows, it would not be terribly unbalancing to add some punch to arrow recipes.  An adamantium longsword with a greater fire enchantment gives a tremendous advantage to the melee specialist - let the bowmen have the kind of power they actually enjoyed in the days of shaft and sword!  (Plus, arrows carrying a payload are just cool.)

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Ayup. The difficulty in getting nifty arrows is the main reason I don't run an archer.

[darkstorme]

Which is also the reason why single-arrow CNR for something as mundane as poison arrows deprecates the work to pointlessness - an archer wastes a LOT of arrows at range, or against an enemy with a significant AC.  As such, requiring a vial of poison for every arrow would mean an astronomical CNR cost in order to make the arrow an effective weapon at all.

Granted, I know you (Pen N Popper) said it would be used mainly for RP purposes, but no archer would spend that much time and effort on a single poisoned arrow, no matter how good a shot they were.  20, I think, as was mentionned above, would be quite reasonable.

[Pen N Popper]

A vial of poison takes one spider gland to make.  Spiders are plentiful.  If you could poison twenty arrows per vial, a skilled craftsman could have easily hundreds of arrows in a few moments with poison damage.

That is the train of thought I am trying to avoid the world builders from having.  The conversations that end in, "Unbalancing."

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

And the end result would be different in what way from simply using the poison to coat the arrowheads for a few minutes' worth of potentcy? Also, the DCs are quite low, and spider glands that are genuinely easy to get have very meager effects in any case.

It's no different from a crafter of the same skill making some Oak shafted arrows with Iron heads and Hawk fletching. Hawks are plentiful, Iron is moderately easy to get, and oak's just as easy. Poisoncraft, on the other hand, is a very exclusive trade.

[aragwen]

Well fire, cold, lightning and acid (if you want to waste a special CNR) are allready available at this moment.
  As far as poison arrows are concerned, the one thing that one needs to take into account when you speak poison is that these type of arrows do not just do additional damage but the actually affect abilities, i.e. reduces strength or constitution.
  That is where the whole balance issue comes up. Having the ability to shoot even just one arrow that take 1d6 or 1d4 (i.e.) strength away is very very powerful. Now let us assume a good archer can shoot 4 of those arrows in one round, the enemy would have no chance what so ever.
  And no matter whether you make the recipe for 1 or 20 arrows.....people will make them in bulk and use them as such.
  EDIT: Also the ability to add poison to a single arrow allready exist now, just not pre-coated. You can coat a single arrow and shoot it immediately and you should get the benefit.

[darkstorme]

Precisely.  As it stands, the CNR is no different from the "coat with poison" ability.  To avoid unbalancing as a CNR, though, one could reduce the potency of any poison used in the process - the most lethal poisons would still be effective, but at a greatly reduced rate.  And holy would still be nice as a ranged weapon type.

[Willowraine]

I for one would be happier with the ability to make one poison arrow at a time that the poison stays on until fired. Twenty at a time would saturate the market rather quickly with lower end poison arrows, unless the required crafting level was rather high and I dont think anyone wants that.

Dont even have to complicate it that much for me, 3-5 recipes would be nice.