Couples on Layo..

[Frelinder]

How many on Layo that plays a female are in RL a male here on Layo? And How big are the difference between male and female players. Is it about 10% female players and the rest are males?

I have seen some lesbian couples here on Layo.. but wouldn't it be fun to see an gay couple. I mean if you sit on the bench in Hlint and all of the sudden two males walk by hand in hand.. hehe. I suppose that the reason why it is so many lesbian couples are that either one of them ar in RL a male.. or perhaps both are. And if both of them are in fact males then hrmmm... yea well.. you get the picture.

[Talan Va'lash]

hehe I acctually have played a gay character that initially I made (on another server) to spite the trend of an overabundance of female - female relationships (which is due to a good portion of the females being played by males and being uncomfortable having a relationship with a male character despite the fact that their character is female.)
 
  Despite his silly reason for being created he was a lot of fun and became really deep.  I have considered creating the character on Layo but with the characters I'm currently playing I don't have time to do him justice
 
  Edit: Some of the reactions I've gotten with this character have been pretty hilarious hehe

[kenty191]

Please Note: This is in no way an attempt to opena can of worms on the topic, or to fuel some sort of debate on RL. I am more interested in other players IC views on such male-male relationships.
  As a gay man myself I have often been tempted to create a character who is more fitting with my own personal feelings, so as to RP more realistically given the (unlikely) event another PC should initiate a 'romance-like' conversation.
  However, perhaps due to a lack of male-male couples in game, I had assumed perhaps such characters may have been frowned upon, though this is probably more my own fabrication than any solid rule or fact I have seen. Instead I have chosen to create female characters, so as to feel more comfortable with 'romance-like' conversations, however this is certainly not the most comfortable playing style for me.
  This being said, to RP is to assume the persona of another 'person' and orientation is certainly a part of this, furthermore, I have enjoyed and still do enjoy RPing all my female characters, as well as my male ones (my frist layo character was male).
  Ah, now I've got that off my chest (and I hope not to offend or provoke anyone, let me be very clear on this) I would like to hear others comments on possible male-male relations in game given the few lesbian couples already in play on Layonara
  By the way my thanks to the original poster, I have been waiting for someone to raise this topic for quite a while now!

[Nibor21]

There really should be more male - male relationships.

I guess there is a social fear of stepping in that direction though. There is also the simple fact that the majority of players here are male and the whole lesbian experience (even though sex isn't RP'ed) is exciting to the average male phyche, whereas male-male relationships in game can start to tear the victorian morality wall that most men have in biult RL.

The silly thing is a setting like NWN is a place where someone really should be able to explore elements of both fears and desires.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Heh, I was just thinking the same thing the other day. Interestingly enough, Pyyran's been my first straight character for a long time... And when I created him, THAT was a refreshing change of pace. *He laughs.* 'Course, that could always change, but most of his male friends are either dwarves or Freldo.

*He giggles.* I can just see Jet walking hand-in-hand with Yard, though. That would really make my day.

Anyway, I think my next character (a Drow, actually; surprise surprise for those who know I play humans exclusively) will go towards helping with this deficit.

Thanks for the extra inspiration.

[kenty191]

Well I for one am now stepping in that direction, I am in the process of character creation at the moment. Rather than focusing entirely on creating ahomosexual character just for that reason I am aiming to create a well rounded one who happens to be homosexual. This social fear is something I myself have felt, I guess that if this character is approved I will get to see what happens.

[Rowana]

I would hazard a guess that most of the folks in Layo are fairly open minded about these sorts of things. Er .. PC's that is. not going to make a claim for the general populas, heh. anyhow, really doesn't bother me how anyone RPs their character long as they are conciderate of the family server standing. i think an RP server is a silly place to have taboo on relationship types, unless say it's the culture of the world we exist in. its all fuel for the fire of creativity.

as to the question of how many RL fem/RL male folks behind these toons, if the frapper  bit is any indication only about one tenth (bad with percents, its a bit more then that)the population is acutally female, and i know that there are way more fem characters then that!

[Chrys Ellis]

I personally would love to see a gay male character played on Layo.  I would wonder what the general attitude toward homosexuality would be in this world, at this time.  My gut instinct is that most of the population would be uncomfortable with it, but there are so many factors that go into socially acceptable behaviors, it's hard to say.  Still, I think playing a gay character in an environment where it was not considered ok to be gay, and that preference was guarded closely by the character, would be a lot more interesting than playing something like a screaming queen for everyone's amusement.  Keep everyone guessing, instead of laying it all on the table up front.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Aye, the homosexuality will definately be a lower-profile part of my character, at least. It's really just a better reason for him to leave the Underdark, after all.

As to how a gay man would be accepted in Layo... I get the feeling that the PLAYERS will be absolutely fine with it, because, well, we're family here. I've seen more goodwill and charitability among players here than anywhere else, ever, for any game. Heck, for any activity of any sort. Also, the seperation between character and player here is something that everyone should be proud of.

In regards to fellow players not being straight, I don't think that many, if any, will have a problem with it. See my above statements? *He chuckles.* Those that are uncomfortable, well, I sincerely doubt that that will affect the interactions between players, becuase, well... As I said. This is a Good Place.

In regards to characters, which is the issue of main focus (just wanted to interject on the other issue), I can't imagine anyone having troubles with that, OOC. IC... In the world as it is now, I think there would be some SMALL stigma, but no worse than women with other women. It's not been built up in Layonaran society that same-sex romance is taboo, so far as I can tell.

And that is a Good Thing.

For RP as well as a friendly atmosphere.

[kenty191]

My character which I am about to submit has lived in a 'social bubble' all his life until now. He lived aboard a ship of elves and was the ships bardic entertainment, aside from being a competant crew member during working hours. He had a relationship with the ships captain and was torn from him by the summoning, as such he will lament about lost love quite a bit I would imagine.
  I dont intend to make him a 'screaming queen' as someone put it asI am notin RLand so would have difficulty Rping such a thing in this setting. He will be more of a social outsider though at least at first I assume.
  Hes also a follower of Xeen!
  *runs off to submit and hopefuly be approved*

[Xandor Loriland]

Not to be a party pooper or anything but I just think there is a tight rope that has to be walked between the expression of the character and the family friendliness of this server.  There are a lot of young children that play here (I know of some 9-10 year olds) and many are not really ready to deal with some of the more complicated sexual issues presented by couples.  I am not just talking about girl-girl or guy-guy.  I am just talking about sex in general and it seems that the sexual sides of characters, both gay and straight, have been coming to light more and more lately.  I realize that sexuality is a major motivator and can have a lot to do with how a character develops but I would simply ask that those considering sexual expression of any sort be considerate of the children that you may not realize are watching and keep these issues as rated G as possible.

[kenty191]

I couldnt agree more with this, and given the nature of this server being a family server is why I have left this topic until it was raised by another to air. I have always been respectful of other players when conducting a previous in character relationship with my character female character Kali. So long as no sexual behaviour is expressed, which I have never done in my time here. I think the notion of 'love' between two characters and the resulting RP can only be seen as a good thing however I agree there may be some who take things 'too far'.
  The tightrope metaphor seems very apt in these circumstances regardless of the orientation of PC's.

[ZeroVega]

Quite frankly *I* (emphasess on the "I") don't really care whether you play a straight or gay character. I'll play and interract with it as my character would, I would treat the player of said straight or gay person exactly the same as everyone else (whether the player him/herself is gay or straight). But as Xandor said, it is a fine line (tight rope) that is being toyed with here and the considerations of the parents of children who may be playing here should be taken into account. Leanthar ahs put a lot of effort into making this a family friendly server... too much effort to jeapordize it over such a small thing.

Personally, I'm going to keep my "personal" opinions to my self. I don't wish to offend anyone on either side of the spectrum on this. I've stated how I will and do treat people, which is equally and without discrimination on both sides. To me, at this point, I'd like very much to hear from L on this topic.

ZV-

[darkstorme]

If TBoEF (if you know what it is, you know what I mean, and if you don't, you probably shouldn't) is to be taken seriously, the D&D universe in general, and FR and Greyhawk in particular, have no problem with same-sex relationships.  That being said, Layo isn't FR or Greyhawk - but nor is it Medieval or Victorian England.  There are similarities, but the standards of living are higher, and with magic and gods and whatnot being bandied about, people generally seem more open-minded.

And I suspect that Xeenites would encourage relationships of any shape or form. *grins*

[jrizz]

Well as much as I think a male-male dwarf-wemic couple would be about as fun as anything. I have to lean on the side of the family server thing. I have had more interactions with characters that are played by underage players then ever before. I know some of the parents that are getting their children and families involved in playing. Although Layo can be as good place as any to learn about the complexities of relationships, we are here first and foremost for fun. There has already been at least once in the past a mass banning due to sexual misconduct. It is good that the DM team caught it and did something about it but can you imagine the negative impact that could have had on a very young mind. I am all for being free with your feelings but Layo is always described as a family place. My opinion (I repeat my opinion) is that we have already quite a few times crossed the line. Not that I mind, I am an adult who lives in the SF bay area But if I had children playing I would want to have been informed that this freedom exists here. As a parent I want to have the chance to teach my son of the complexities of relationships before he learns it from a computer game . So I guess what I am saying is that to protect the players and their families as well as the hard work put in by the team (keeping Layo a open well balanced fun place) we might need to have a small disclaimer on the front page of the site.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Okay, look. The focus of this discussion isn't sex; not in the least. It's about romance, which you can find in any Disney film.

Just happens to be between two guys.

In my opinion, telling a child that it's wrong to love someone just because they're the same gender is more harmful than telling them about all the dirty nitty-gritties of "the adult conspiracy" to use a term from Piers Anthony.

In the end, it's about diversity of RP opportunities. Myself, I consider tastefully done "romantic encounters" to be valid RP venues, but as a family server, we don't allow that sort of thing. That's perfectly understandable... However, there is absolutely nothing more "dangerous" to our "family setting" about a male-male relationship than a male-female relationship.

As long as everyone follows the rules, people playing homosexual male characters won't be any different than the characters who are straight, bi, or even asexual ('cause, y'know, a Troll might be able to cut himself in half and get two Trolls. Er... Yeah.).

[kenty191]

I find it strange how the topic of same sex couples or homosexual PCs seems to be linked with 'sexual misconduct'. Personally the notion of sex within a computer game I find hollow and not at all appropriate for this kind of server, however such misconduct has occured in the past and I agree it is wrong on a 'family server'.
  However this topic is more centered on in character couples and possible in game reactions to such a thing. The issue of the use of sexual emotes or langauge to me seems entirely seperate from the issue of homosexual PCs who wish to make their sexaulity known or relate to others romantically.
  On a side note, my motivation for wanting to play a gay male PC is this:
  One of the more irritating thigs to deal with as agay playeris the common often subconcious assumption by others that everyone (or in this case every PC is heterosexual). This 'heterosexual unless proven otherwise' viewpoint is a key reason why until now I had chosen not to create a gay PC, as it leaves a player no other option but to declare or 'show' that facet of the character in an overt way.
  I understand however this server is made with fun in mind, and I have just as much fun with any other character I play here.
  I would also just like to say I dont believe this debate can really go anywhere from here other than hearing the two views already presented here.
  Once again just to clarify I in no way wish to start some sort of 'war' on this, I merely wanted to give my oppinion.
  (edit) Seems Stephen beat me to my point above!

[ZeroVega]

Stephen: You make a good point, however, it's not our job to tell kids what is and isn't right. That is their parents job no matter how much we disagree. As I said, I keep my personal opinions to my self but I'd be fine with it, just the same, is it really worth the possibility of parental backlash to allow this new strain or RP to exist in Layonara? Again, I don't really care, but it isn't for us to decide what kids learn; though it IS for us to decide what they are subjected to on Layonara and this might not be one of those things that we want to put out there.

Already I see some effects of dramatic/different/realistic RP. Some of it is OOC and some of it is IC Some of it I like but some of it I don't. (Suicides and Rapes) I don't care how realistic it is, sometimes you need to have an escape from RL and to have a dramatic shock like that can really suck the fun out of it for some people. I don't think L would ever restrict this as there is equal backlash for people who say they are (or play) gay (characters) as there is for people who say they don't approve of it, but I do think it should be kept between people who play known gay characters and people who you know are O.K. with it.

[Talan Va'lash]

kenty191 - 7/5/2006  3:42 PM  One of the more irritating thigs to deal with as a gay player is the common often subconcious assumption by others that everyone (or in this case every PC is heterosexual). This 'heterosexual unless proven otherwise' viewpoint is a key reason why until now I had chosen not to create a gay PC, as it leaves a player no other option but to declare or 'show' that facet of the character in an overt way.
 

 
  I acctually found this to be one of the fun things about playing a gay character. Then again, I enjoy characters with "secrets" (whether they're trying to keep them or not) that are gradually revealed, or can be discovered if other players pick up on the clues I drop. I also had no "need" for it to be known by everyone that the character was gay and neither did he.
 
  The observation I made that I found odd or interesting, was that the majority of characters that picked up on it, which usually led to a more in depth private conversation (IC) were characters that I knew were played by females (and one character I later learned was played by a gay male.)
 

[kenty191]

Perhaps its just me that gets irritated then!