Author Topic: DM or not to DM (Read 1571 times)

Diablo_68 · « **on:** September 28, 2006, 06:05:44 AM »

Hi, first off i dont want to moan about anything that happened to me i just want to get a point of view across. (Of courrse i realise that statement makes it sound like i am about to have a rant.)

Yesterday i was in a party and we were in the Dragon isle dungeon. After fighting 10 or so groups of the exact same numbers of badguys we came across the final room, we fell back into a hallway and a strange spawn which sourrounded us led to my death and the party to retreat.

I was wondering if this was a DM spawn as it seemed most unusual, especially as we were back into the hallway so it would seem most odd for a trigger to be placed there.

(the not moaning bit) If this was a DM spawn, i can understand how it would seem like a good idea to spice up the game as all the other fights had been the same. But with no warning of a dms presence it came as a complete shock. Now i can see most people saying that is the point, but..... if you have been playing for the last 45 mins fighting the same scripted badguys in the same amounts even the best RPer wil get into the same old rut and expect the same thing.

What i am trying say is.... If a DM decides to intervene in this kind of scenario i think some kind of role played warning, *You notice the werewolf alert more of his kind* something like that. If players know a DM is present then they will be more aware and ready, when you are fighting the normal sripted triggers you will slump into a normal fighting routine.

I am sure i will need to exaplin myself better. Also if this happened without the intervention of any DM then shut me up and delete this post.

LynnJuniper · « **Reply #1 on:** September 28, 2006, 06:08:09 AM »

Sometimes, Sometimes there's just a simple pattern to where GMs like to mess with you:

My personal Observations:

Firesteep is free ground. There IS a giant dragon living there, therefore be on your gaurd at all time

The silver Mines: See above. Longstorm. Free Game...

Just be careful and know about your surroundings...

IceDragonDuvessa · « **Reply #2 on:** September 28, 2006, 06:10:22 AM »

I can't say if there was a gm there or not because I don't honestly know. But players should ALWAYS be on their toes and ready. Not only do dms lurk to give you a time to RP off of but also spawns change and are updated so what you expect to be there may not. Best Rp'r or worst when your character falls in a rut and becomes careless bad things tend to happen GM present or no.

Lilswanwillow · « **Reply #3 on:** September 28, 2006, 06:17:05 AM »

yup, I don't like warning, I remember going to the broken halls and suddenly there were golems on the first level. It was so totally awesome, and none of us were careless in the least. But, we weren't being careless in the first place, since only one of us had been there afore, and noone knew WHAT to expect. I didn't know golems weren't supposed to be there, and I think thats how the game should be played: remember, monsters MOVE. It could even be a new spawn. rp wise, its great, cause it adds a new element to the game.

Eorendil · « **Reply #4 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:29:01 AM »

Sometimes a discreet RP warning or hint is in order and sometimes it isn't. I've no idea if what happened was GM intervention or not but its good to always be on your toes.

Pen N Popper · « **Reply #5 on:** September 28, 2006, 07:51:02 AM »

Being there myself with Nixx, I think it was a normal spawn. I think that perhaps as we fell back in the hallway we triggered the spawns we would have met normally on the way out. I'm not sure, of course, but it seems unlikely a GM was there. If so, I'm sure they would have bonked us for our exceptional RP tactics. :-)

Diablo_68 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 28, 2006, 08:37:18 AM »

Did we fall back?

I was just standing at the back.... Yeah you might be Right actually.....

In which case i still hate greater wear cats.

But i think my point still kinda stands.

DMOE · « **Reply #7 on:** September 28, 2006, 09:23:39 AM »

Why?
Why should your tactics be any different knowing there is a DM about?
As IceDragon stated...Spawns are updated and changed so therefore you could go somewhere you THINK you know well to find something completely different to what you were expecting.
Also look at it like this...
DM see's a party and spawn some random monster on them having announced themselves in an 'RP' manner..
Player b decides the spawn was 'too strong' when in actual fact player tactics are to blame but player b dies and loses a SS..
Player b then appeals losing their SS and complains the spawn was too strong...DM argues it's not....It all gets messy and DM thinks 'why bother spawning fun stuff randomly to challenge people, all that happens is I get more stress for it'
Then people moan that the DM's don't find the time to do random things with them when they are out adventuring.
I repeat what others have said....
Treat each outing as if there maybe be a DM present to spawn things and don't get over confident.
I've had my character die in Storens before....She was 18th lvl...Did a DM spawn something? No, I got over confident and forgot how truely terrible her will save is and a Bodak got her.

Leanthar · « **Reply #8 on:** September 28, 2006, 09:29:19 AM »

"....Player b then appeals losing their SS and complains the spawn was too strong...DM argues it's not....It all gets messy and DM thinks 'why bother spawning fun stuff randomly to challenge people, all that happens is I get more stress for it'

Then people moan that the DM's don't find the time to do random things with them when they are out adventuring....."

How true that is!!! Sad, but very true.

Dorganath · « **Reply #9 on:** September 28, 2006, 09:29:21 AM »

*points to what DMOE said*

bytor · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2006, 11:52:10 AM »

Well, being there myself... It did look like a 'regular' spawn group that hit us in the back when we were about to face what was running towards us from the big room... That werecat definitely came from the room (there wasn't a 'regular' group in there, btw). It's the spawn that hit us in the back that I was wondering where it came from, but suppose it was a trigger... * shrugs *
And addressing what's been said above, there's no problem with spawns changing, it's what makes the game interesting. It's why we had Bee scout ahead every time before engaging... From in game point of view, a group of werebeasts managed to sneak on us - it happens; but I agree with Diablo that if they had been a courtesy of a DM, a listen check or somesuch would have been nice.

J-ser · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2006, 02:01:45 PM »

I love it when DM's drop big and nasties with no warning (mostly because I can laugh and disapear before their eyes). It creates an fear for your life. Its puts in the very real possiblity that our character isn't coming back. When you know that you can go somewhere and not die its no fun. When you know that there is a chance your going to die spectacularly, then it adds some surprise.

LordCove · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2006, 02:33:07 PM »

*points to what J-ser said*

I cant laugh about it and dissapear of course....but its DM drops like that which make the game so much more exciting. When you start knowing that a group of enemies will spawn just around the corner, you prepare yourself. But in RP terms, how the hell do you know a group of Ogres are gonna suddenly appear round the corner? Or respawn in the next 2 minutes?
Even though I panic everytime I see an unusual spawn, figuring its a DM drop, I much prefer it to knowing a respawns going to happen in about 2 minutes.

IceDragonDuvessa · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2006, 02:43:23 PM »

Wanting a warning before a dm tries to engage your party to me says that you want a warning so you can start rping like you should have been doing all along.

Posts like this, as DMOE so well presented, are a big part of why DMs DON"T run more impromptu quests and I think it says a lot about the direction this community is in part moving in. You should be RPing and in character at all times on the server no matter what you are out doing, so that you don't need a warning from a dm that something fun is about to happen but rather can stride right into it. If you find that you are into something that seems monotonous perhaps you should turn around and go do something a little less tedious before you fall into a rut and are just out grinding.

Pen N Popper · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2006, 03:31:18 PM »

While I want to agree with the RP-all-of-the-time, I just cannot. There is no reason any sane person would RP on their ump-teenth trip down the Haven mine. Even if you wanted to RP, you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone to join you. Their "buffs" would run out in the opening sequence and you'd be blacklisted. (That's a bit dramatic, and I'm sure it doesn't really happen.)
The fact is we choose when to RP and when not to. I tend to do it by day: Some days I try to get XP, other days I enjoy myself and RP. I like leveling. Why? Lots of reasons, most of which have been recited ad nauseum.
What I'm saying is don't criticize someone for not RPing on the 17th trip to place X. Instead, praise those that now and again slow down and add some depth to the world. It's not a rewarding endeavor to flavor a story that only you are interested in.
My party and I RPed the trip into that dungeon as an adventure. We handled ourselves superbly, we RPed, we used tactics available to our small party. Do you seriously think that the tenth time there would be handled the same? Unlikely. I would try because that's what I enjoy. Others would go the tenth time for other reasons.
You want to keep good RPers? Reward them for their efforts. If you don't think a good RPed expedition into Haven deserves an XP bonus, you haven't been into Haven recently.
My two cents

Diablo_68 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 28, 2006, 03:40:59 PM »

Arg this is why i was never going to post this topic........

I was asking a question and trying get peoples oppinions, now it seems i am on the back foot and need to defend my self. Perhaps i am wrong yet it seems i need to justify my actions and reasons for making this post.

Basically i think DM's doing stuff is fine, but a complete one off spawn change out of nowhere is a bit harsh. (As this spawn was a normal one, I have never been on the receiving end, i just wanted to see what the feeling about somthing like this happening would be)

1. I was not meaning a tell from a dm saying they are going to do something. But perhaps a creatre doing something or a GM observation, you could do this and not actually do anything for sometime, or you could do it and not actually do anything full stop.

2. I had never been in this area before so everything was new, i did not know where any spawns were. Because of the fact that my other two party members were in the same situation we were scouting ahead and still doing RP just fine.

3. You know what i just can't be bothered to keep going on with this reply.

Basically i asked a question and tried to get my point of view across.

Nehetsrev · « **Reply #16 on:** September 28, 2006, 05:06:57 PM »

Quote

Pen N Popper - 9/28/2006 5:31 PM If you don't think a good RPed expedition into Haven deserves an XP bonus, you haven't been into Haven recently.
My two cents

Speaking of the Haven Mines, I've been doing a lot of mining there in the past week in order to work at increasing both my weaponsmithing and armorsmithing CNR skills. On one of my more recent trips my wife was coming along with me and we made our way through the first level to the chamber off to one side with a curved stone bridge and a good-sized group of ogres on the other side. I RPed my character waving at the ogres on the other side, mainly to just get their attention and 'tease' them a bit. At first I didn't notice, but one of the ogres was just standing there looking like he was doing nothing. Then he spoke. When I started talking back to the ogre my wife really took notice (she was outside the range of being able to 'hear' the ogre talking at first). We ended up making a deal with the ogre, Glurgle was it's name, to bring it food and drink in exchange for some of that wonderful iron we were there to mine. It was great, I was surprised, and delighted to have some DM interaction. My wife was even more so, as this had been the first time she'd experienced DM interaction in the couple weeks since she started actively playing on Layonara. To say she was thrilled about the whole little mini-adventure would be an understatement. So, to whichever DM it was that played Glurgle, thank you very much for spicing things up for both of us, and the others who joined us along the way. Evil spawns of death or delightful little adventures alike, I wish more things like that ocurred more often. Oh, and as a final note, we didn't get any XP reward, just the bit of iron we traded for, and that was more than enough for us.

Tanman · « **Reply #17 on:** September 28, 2006, 10:49:37 PM »

Personally I feel that a DM should never have to represent themselves at all, and never have to say that something is out of the extraordanairy. Layonara is meant to be full of surprises, and it keeps people being cautious and ever weary.

Personally I would rather have a DM control a spontaneous quest in which my character died rather than just mindlessly killing scripted monsters. Jser spelled it out wonderfully.

Faldred · « **Reply #18 on:** September 29, 2006, 12:07:47 PM »

The only time I know I got a "DM spawn" was after a Haven outing. We got back to town, and naturally threw ourselves down to rest up.

Well, lo and behold, a group of ogres "persued" us out of the mines. Nothing we couldn't handle, but it did remind us not to be complacent.

Wraithdur · « **Reply #19 on:** September 29, 2006, 12:46:12 PM »

dm's making their prescence known trough rp is a wonderfull thing, i remember the first time it happened to me.
in the end a kobold came to negotiate in hlint. it really showed me the strong rp base of this server, and i haven't stopped enjoying it since