Author Topic: Character attitudes towards each other (Read 2622 times)

Polak76 · « **on:** October 31, 2006, 08:03:43 PM »

Well it hasn't been all that long RPing my new Corathite and as usual I'm already getting the typical metagaming issues I used to get a while back.

I would just like to remind people to rethink their characters attitude towards others whom we all know OOC worship an evil or unliked god yet IG have no idea. Many of you may argue this but I promise you it happens all to often.

This not only occurs to me but other friends I RP with on our Time zone. Each of them have also commented on similar issues. I'm not wishing to single anyone out, nor am I angry, I'm simply a little disappointed when people metagame to give their characters an edge or buff their ego's.

Now dont get me wrong, I'm all for people hating my characters. Thats the fun part.
I just don't like when I meet someone for the first time whom has no idea about my char, yet seems to already hate me because in reality they've seen under server status 'Corath' as my Deity.

Additioanlly even though you might hate a person's dry attitude, sarcasm or unwillingness to aid others, it does not mean you've learnt their Deity or allegiencs.

Hate for the right reasons and we'll all have some fun.

Cheers,
Polak76

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #1 on:** October 31, 2006, 09:10:35 PM »

Seconded and agreed. Come on, part of the fun is finding these things out in-game, if you ever do. And not knowing's just as fun if not more.

Harlas Ravelkione · « **Reply #2 on:** October 31, 2006, 11:19:06 PM »

Agreed on the part about metagaming. Remember that we are looking at opening more up to evil alignments once we chance into Version 3 og Layonara. However, such an opening will require all of us to be able to handle characters with these alignments in a mature way. If that is not possible and metagaming continues to happen all too often I am confident that the restrictions will be put back into place.

@ Polak: To the corathites I will say this though. The way you dress, your voice sets, the spells you use and your physical descriptions often give you away miles away. That a character accuses you of being a corathite does not necessarily mean he knows you are one - still he finds you look like one and screams "CORATHITE". A reasonable thing to do for many characters, and something that is in the human nature - scream first and think later.

Chongo · « **Reply #3 on:** October 31, 2006, 11:40:14 PM »

Yep. Great points Harlas. *points to his link below in self-deprecation that only those that know the movie Blazing Saddles will understand*

Agreed on the metagaming, but there's a learning curve to it. And as Layo is right now, people just aren't used to how to interact in a fashion conducive to opposing alignments. There's just no exposure to it right now, so any notion of evil will require a lot of tolerance on the part of the individual roleplaying their evil nature *or* their devotion to evil dieties. I agree that in v3 the learning curve will steepen and the community will get used to the varying alignments and/ or afilliations. But it will of course be a rough introduction if it's cold turkey in this pool.

There's just no exposure for folks to learn how to approach this, so picking out character descriptions, general behavior, and yes, LORE knowledge the character shouldn't have... it's going to be exaggerated in the community on the whole. I think the Layo basis up to now is that we're all on the same side. So until it's a community standard, well into v3 I'm guessing, the player of something outside the norm is always going to have to be the better man.

I actually looked at this post about 4 hours ago and went to LORE to check your character descriptions. But they were wonderfully vague... so yeah, it's being the bigger man and educating the community in the most friendly manner possible.

ThrainSil · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2006, 12:42:07 PM »

I avoid the "Character Dev" thread so I can avoid knowing things my Character would not. But when looking on 'server status" the gods jump right out. Mabey it would it be possible to stop displaying diety selections there or anyplace else.

ZeroVega · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2006, 12:45:50 PM »

Perhaps it would be possible to allow for players to set preferences to the Server Status page? They could then collapse things such as, class, level, deity, or alignment whenever they wanted to and could keep it that way for as long as their cookies were "fresh." (Meh, I hate stale cookies.)

Just a thought.

LynnJuniper · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2006, 01:05:39 PM »

Harlas is right

For some characters if they see people Dressed in Black and/or red. speaking or acting cruley or maliciously or even acting 'emo' then they'll assume CORATHITE!. Also, if you summon (if you're a caster or cleric class) some evil dog or something, they'll Assume CORATHITE.

this reminds me of Rhynn in the underdark watching a certain character summon a Maralith. It also reminds me of a new instance with a character where Rhynn saw her summon a fiendish dog, and yet DIDNT say anything about her nature. Those types of things can give this all away.

However collapsable deity/class/alignment columns would be awesome

Dezza · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2006, 01:52:27 PM »

Quote

Harlas Ravelkione - 10/31/2006 4:19 PM

@ Polak: To the corathites I will say this though. The way you dress, your voice sets, the spells you use and your physical descriptions often give you away miles away. That a character accuses you of being a corathite does not necessarily mean he knows you are one - still he finds you look like one and screams "CORATHITE". A reasonable thing to do for many characters, and something that is in the human nature - scream first and think later.

Sorry but I don't agree (hehe) that this is the case and I have to back Polak here that people can't help themselves but metagame in these instances. Whether it be because they want a confrontation to spice things up or because its interesting for RP or because here finally they have a chance to really play their good alignment in a way they know how...people do it.

People could just as easily scream, thieves, assassins, bandits, gypsies, slavers, pirates, scary people etc, etc, etc But people scream Corathite because they metagame. I have started a new char a Priest of Corath called Sipher. Only one person on the server so far has he divulged that information to. Corathites are not stupid (for the most part anyway) They dont go around blaring their allegiances out to everyone, they are like drow, secretive, hidden. PLenty of honourable PC's on Layo walk around in black suits or clothing and peolpe dont go accussing them of being Corathites do they?

No, its going to happen no matter what..people cannot help themselves but do it. The good Corathites will know how to avoid confrontation where possible and not to divulge their allegiances.

I suppose everyone thinks Erag is a Corathite?

DMOE · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:03:29 PM »

Quote

Dezza - 11/1/2006 9:52 PM
I suppose everyone thinks Erag is a Corathite?

You mean he's not? Eeek!!

Chongo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:04:15 PM »

Quote

Dezza - 11/1/2006 2:52 PM
I suppose everyone thinks Erag is a Corathite?

Xeenite. Saw him in the tavern once with a skin tight red and purple suit. That and the creepy silent staring thing...

Harlas Ravelkione · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:17:41 PM »

Quote

Dezza - Sorry but I don't agree (hehe) that this is the case and I have to back Polak here that people can't help themselves but metagame in these instances. Whether it be because they want a confrontation to spice things up or because its interesting for RP or because here finally they have a chance to really play their good alignment in a way they know how...people do it. People could just as easily scream, thieves, assassins, bandits, gypsies, slavers, pirates, scary people etc, etc, etc But people scream Corathite because they metagame.QUOTE]

You got me wrong here. I agree that they SHOULD be all what you just stated, but too often they are not. Perhaps your character and Polak's characters among others are exceptions, but there are just as many if not more who's appearance, behavior and what they write into their physical descriptionsgive them away on first glance. Using the read gleam visual effect for weapons is another hint, together with strange fangs on the armour, whips and cruel looking weapons. I am not saying they could not be followers of Ca'duz, Mist or Lucinda for all I know, but that is simply not the first thought that hits me when I see something like that.
What I don't understand is why people don't dress totally plain, like the rest of us. Don't give your characters exaggerated and evil descriptions, don't use the insane or evil voicesets - let us discover what you're about! That results in more fun for you and for us.

Lalaith Va'lash · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:28:44 PM »

Quote

Harlas Ravelkione - 11/1/2006 5:17 PM
What I don't understand is why people don't dress totally plain, like the rest of us. Don't give your characters exaggerated and evil descriptions, don't use the insane or evil voicesets - let us discover what you're about! That results in more fun for you and for us.

Yes! And then you think they are your friends... until they turn evil and become your arch enemy....
*pretends to wipe a tear* Oh, how I miss Ramanon. Wonder if Lalaith will ever discover (not by metagaming of course!) That he has a son, whom she can torment instead....
Seriously though, a lot of great things said here in these posts. I think Polak76 has a lot of good points.

Acacea · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:31:48 PM »

Metagaming ruins a lot of fun for everyone, no matter who your character worships. But if you play an evil character or someone involved in confidential activities, it can really be nearly game-breaking. So I agree with everything that Polak said.

But disagree strongly with Dezza. Not to point anywhere but "please..." is all I can think to say. It's easy to SAY "they aren't going to divulge..." while someone is strutting around in black insulting people with skulls on their shields and sitting around Hlint going "DARKNESS TAKE YOU!" to anyone that stops to chat. I'm not saying they all act like this but I have seen this behavior lauded as good roleplay and anyone who might respond with "creepy Corathite..." branded with METAGAMER! despite what I'd like to quote from Stephen's signature as, "Looks like a duck, acts like a duck, has the word 'duck' written over it..."

My character for instance has rubbed shoulders with thieves or assassins or creepy people and yes she has also approached people who she thinks might be a follower of say, Branderback, in a discreet fashion. She does NOT like Corathites and she has a lot of criteria that they amusingly fill repeatedly...some of them are mistakes and are not Corathites at all, but it happens.

Yes, Erag has actually been looked at by a few people oddly, but at least he's just drunk in the Wild Surge and not screaming about BLOOD BLOOD GLORIOUS BLOOD or about your souls being taken by the dark lord, nor shown any obvious signs of necromancy. I am in complete agreement that metagaming sucks but saying that they haven't or don't ever act obvious just because they're not SUPPOSED to is in blatant opposition to things that have occurred and I am not at all apologetic for my character having anyone on a list because of it.

I have met neither of the two Corathites mentioned in this thread and so obviously am not specifically referring to them, but just because you're being discreet doesn't mean that everyone is.

Talan Va'lash · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:37:35 PM »

My corathite will wear pink lacy dresses, a wide sunbonnet, carry a pink parasol use the giggly girl voice set...

... and be male. lol no, just kidding.

----

but on the serious side, what are the pro's to having the deity thing visible on lore by everyone? I don't think thats something that needs to be visible to every ooc at all.

Of course you can find it in the submission but thats more work and the hope is that if its more work people wont do it. Also they won't accidentally metagame just because they see it whenever they look at server stats.

I think level and class should be on the server stats because I often use that when deciding which character to play or what I'm going to do when I log on since if everyone thats on is lower than level 12 then I won't bring talan on and try to get a party to go adventuring since, that wont work well. But deity doesn't need to be visible to all.

Polak76 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:39:50 PM »

Well how about this:

I dress Alandric in pink with a yellow sash, carry a rose and walk around singing? Actually thats not a bad idea!

In some instances though I can agree with Harlas about the attire, but I've also made neutral characters whom are rude, wear black and generally are cheeky. In these circumstances people still warm to them and never react the same way.

It's not a big deal at the moment just irritating. If someone openly metagames I usually send them a tell asking why they did such a thing or how they knew about this or that. Sometimes I'm the one who is wrong and correct myself. Usually it is sorted then and there, though some others let it get to their heads or take the tell personally.
I'm really keen for people hating me and that will come in due time. Also I love the idea's for version three and I only hope that characters participate in a mature fashion as mentioned above.

I generally find that most Corathites conduct themselves very discretely. Only one person from memory (Nethro) conducted himself out of fashion in hlint. He paid the price (had his arm severed off) whch was delievered to him by the corathites in typical fashion.

The other thing i like to comment on as well is about the summons. Yes a Corathite may summon a demon, but does that really mean that those watching can instantly depict that character as being a Corathite? Do they really know about the Corath Deity let alone any other Deities? I know on page 200 and something in the players handbook there is a list of summons each deity gets, but how does a character know this. Whats to say this character is simply a demon worshipper with no deity yet somehow has learnt to summon demons?
What I'm getting at is that we all read about all the religions in Layo OOC. We know all about their allies and enemies, who they worship, what alignment, summons etc...But do our characters really know about these religions in full detail? Does everyone in RL know all elements of Islam, Buddism, Roman Cathoilc etc? Yes we know minor details, maybe some more than others, but in the world of Layonara the same sort of attention is needed. This applies to all deities.

Anyway I better get back to work.
Cheers,
Polak76

L

lonnarin · « **Reply #15 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:40:58 PM »

Erag DOES however occassionally walk around with a knife and cut huge bloody gashes in his scalp like Abdullah the Butcher used to do. Even if it isn't Corathite, it's still unsanitary.

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #16 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:44:42 PM »

Now that Yü is wearing something different I am getting a better response out of people. It comes down to the outfit.

Polak76 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:48:01 PM »

Hehehe...nice to hear from you again Lalaith!

Yes, please come and torture Ramanons son! I do miss thos old times.

cheers,
Polak76

SquareKnot · « **Reply #18 on:** November 01, 2006, 02:58:46 PM »

Quote

Do they really know about the Corath Deity let alone any other Deities?

Here's where not having the Knowledge (Religion) skill in the game hurts. In these cases (where OOC knowledge of the handbook may or may not be in the character's head), I either ignore the knowledge or else say, in my case, my bard/priest might know that, and do a lore skill check.

Oh, and about Erag. I cast Divine Relation on him once, just to see. It came back as Enemy of Aragen. I don't think he's a Voraxian (no axe), a Misty (no chaos), or a Xeenite (no fun), so that narrows it down. (Actually, I have no idea how Divine Relation would work on NPCs, if at all, but it was still fun).

Crunch · « **Reply #19 on:** November 01, 2006, 03:40:39 PM »

Perhaps dropping the characters deity from server status would help a bit with metagaming. I often look at server status to see if friends are on and it makes the characters who worship evil gods really standout. I find myself saying to friends, "geesh, look at all the Corathites." It does make it a bit more challenging to avoid metagaming.

For that matter, does the character level really need to be on the general server status? It seems like the only thing players really require from server status is a chance to see if their buddies are online.