Monk Prestige Class?

[jadewillow]

With the coming of V3, has there been any thoughts of new Prestige classes? I hate to be self serving, but a Monk prestige class would be nice since Monk's really have no place to go after epic. Perhaps an Elemental Monk to align with the Elemental Monk Order. Choosing your element (Water, Air, Fire, Earth) would give different capabilities/responsibilities.

Just a thought.

- Jade

[Honora]

I would back this up.  Then again, I joined the Path at level 12, and have most of the requirements.  The difficulty I see is for someone who hasn't previously joined and must meet the requirements for their element before taking the prestige class; it could be a while to get all the feats listed.  

I still think a prestige class by element for those monks who follow the Path is cool and Jade I for one would love to see what you had in mind (as it's something Honora could do), but I'd add at least one other option for monks who do not.  Something like... Black Wizard Killer (could magnify the spell resistance of the monk), or Wild Monk (adding a druid component to the discipline, perhaps like Sacred Fist only druid-oriented).  I would see these as not overpowering but adding some interesting roleplay and a little more utility to the monk after 20.

Anyway, my 2 cents.

[Acacea]

I hate commenting on suggestions, my eternal function is to be Acacea "Wet Blanket" Thistletongue or something. Here's the thing... the Path is essentially an order of monks. There are many. I'm not saying they can never be more, and I realize that the point was to say "they have nowhere to go after epic," which I think is a little weird and would be done case-by-case with really epic monks and all, but they're still monks.

They don't manipulate the elements, they cannot move small flames or summon water or cause a breeze, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure that would get into a lot more details and trod over a lot of other things before it could be worked out on such a large scale as an entire order of monks. Of which...there are many. The basic principle of it is that there are many ways to achieve the basic "class" set of the monk, different disciplines, focuses, mantras, ways of being in general. Should we have a prestige class for all of them? Why?

I'm not saying I completely loathe the idea of having many prestige classes roles--I don't, I love flavor and detail--but for things like all of the Aeridinite monks, the Roldemian monks, the Path monks, the hermit monks, the Protector's monks, each ward of Lucinda's clerics so you have a PrC for the Guardians, the Protectors, the Ardhon Gis, the Fallan Gis, the... alright alright you get it, and thinking it's not at all the same thing and not at all a logical comparison.

But it is to me, and here's why--the benefits of these roles are included within the requirements of these roles.

What would I give to a monk of the Path if it were a prestige class? Let's see...element, air... aha! Speed! Reflexes! Ohh perhaps the ability to move unseen, or that cool flippy spinny attack...hey, this is starting to actually sound like a good idea...

Wait...they already have all of these things. It's required. It's a reflection of their capabilities, what they strive for. Perhaps strength, for the flame...ah, also already have it.

You progress in these in the same manner you already progress with the standard monk class. You can do tons of things with just the standard classes by mixing feats and skills, and that's reflected in this kind of thing. When one gets to epic, with a successful gruelingly difficult quest he'd be ascending to some high point in his focus with it, toss a neat custom ability and reward and feat on him or something and poof, he is a unique aspect of it. Roles and responsibilites are more assigned by function and actions in game than how many levels in a PrC...

Did that make any sense? I have no official standing or voice in here or anything so it's not like I'm shutting it down, I just think of making a bunch of new ones and want to be sure that when we think "oo a different sect of druids, let's make a PrC" that we can't simply BE a druid in a different sect with the abilities to match.

If NWN were set up differently I would probably go crazy with the trying to customize every single possibility of classes and characters, but with the way it is I just think most of the time we're better off with having a basic structure and letting people fill it in with whatever pertains to their character, heh. So that usually leaves me in wild favor of more organizations and guilds and history and detail, but leaving the different flavors of the same class as just that--the same class.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

[Gulnyr]

Acacea - 11/2/2006  6:48 PM

But it is to me, and here's why--the benefits of these roles are included within the requirements of these roles.

What would I give to a monk of the Path if it were a prestige class? Let's see...element, air... aha! Speed! Reflexes! Ohh perhaps the ability to move unseen, or that cool flippy spinny attack...hey, this is starting to actually sound like a good idea...

Wait...they already have all of these things. It's required. It's a reflection of their capabilities, what they strive for. Perhaps strength, for the flame...ah, also already have it.

I'm not exactly disagreeing, but this seems like an argument that could be applied to Arcane Archers or Weapon Masters or Shadowdancers, too.  Arcane Archers were already good archers before they took the PrC; it was required.  Weapon Masters could already beat the pants off stuff before they took the PrC; it was required.  Shadowdancers were already sneaky characters before they took the PrC; it was required.  All these PrCs take what the character can already do and bump it up a little more.  Why would a Monk PrC be any different?  

Stephen_Zuckerman - 11/2/2006  7:31 PM

So... Yeah. While I like PrCs, and I like special abilities granted by some of them, I don't think that they're justified in this instance.

So it's justified for the very flexible Rogue class to have the Shadowdancer PrC available as a possibility, and it's justified for the very flexible Fighter class to have the Weapon Master PrC available as a possibility, but it's not justified for the very flexible Monk class to have a PrC possibility because they have the RP of following a faith or a code?  I don't follow your reasoning.  Even Paladins, THE followers of faith and code, get a PrC.


I'm heavily in favor of organizations over PrCs, but that's mostly because I think the basic classes let a player build very nearly any character he wants, and I don't think a PrC alone brings anything to the setting.  So you can't get HiPS or dragon wings or a x5 crit multiplier and a ridiculously large threat range on some outrageously huge weapon without a PrC - so what?  This isn't Munchkinland, it's Layonara.  Jennara's rank as a Knight of the Wyrm means more to me than any special ability automatically granted by a class ever could.  But that's just me, and I'm not totally against PrCs; I have a new Bard character that's aiming for Skald.  

But the point I am hoping to eventually reach some time today is that there are PrCs that cater to specific types of characters from other classes, so why not one for the Monk class, too?  Maybe a Path Monk PrC is too specific, but better that than a PrC that attracts every Monk in the world.  And I support PrCs that are connected to some organization far more than those that just dangle like flypaper to catch any passing character the way Weapon Master and Shadowdancer do.  Yes, I do seem to be picking on those two, don't I?  They just stand out.

[Polak76]

I'm not backing up having PrC's nor am I against them for monks.  I already think monks are real tough characters, probably more dangerous than any other class of equivalent level (in my experience only).  But that's leading off the topic.

What I always wanted for monks is to be able to adopt the Weapons Master PrC, but alas the prereq is to have focus in a melee weapon.  Now in my opinion I feel that the monk's fists are his melee weapon and weapon of choice thus fulfilling the criteria to take the class, however I am sure many people will argue this point.

But there are many other useful PrC's for them.  SD is cool though you really only take it for the HIPS.
Assassin and blackguards are great but one is for evil and the other CE which can never be taken.  So with these choices there is probaby no need for monk specific ones.

At the end of the day you can simply cross a monk with cleric, druid, sorcerer, etc, and you'll end up with a juggernaught of destruction, but then you'd need to ask yourself whether you belong here or on another server.  If its within good RP to do so then i guess its fine.

Cheers...

[Acacea]

I don't disagree with Gulnyr, I don't think that there are not already examples of this, and I think the default PrCs are just taken without usually being involved in actual history or organization. Half-elf archers raised by humans who think real hard at their arrows might eventually be an Arcane Archer, there is nothing tied to them that supports the whole historical defenders of elven heritage and leaders of the warbands deal. At the moment it is to me just another class that might as well be open to everyone for all it is a part of the Elven Way.

I'm not against one being added per se, and certainly not denying that there is potential in every class for both enough change to warrant a PrC and variety within the base class. I'm just in favor of organizations first PrC last, and that they have purpose and history and are not so specific that only two or three take them, or everyone joins the organization to take it.

I like that the Voices of Mist are skalds, for instance, but you don't have to be one to be a skald. It still leaves it open.

The point was that all of the example I mentioned in the previous post have no real additional benefits. Like the path doesn't, without crossing into the whole element controlling thing, which if that came up I would be against anyway heh. The path and most other orders of that nature are like different domains for a cleric. You can have a cleric PrC, but you don't need one to take a different domain.

I also wish that domains shared by various deities were still custom to each--that Lucinda's magic domain would be different from Shindy's or Ilsare's Protection different from Rofirein's. Actually I'd love to ditch domains altogether as long as I'm wishing but...