Wood Foraging.

[Weeblie]

The key for the usual druidness is "moderate". Take from nature, but only what you have to...

There are of course those "extreme druids", too... hehe!

[Hellblazer]

A druid would not, for example, go and kill every boar in a particular area in one go, but he would perhaps kill one and use its resources as best he could.
        Sadly to get anywhere in crafting you have to do just that.
 
  you are only forgetting one very very very important thing about layo and its the time.  What you think people are doing daily by going arond and harvesting a lot of wood in 10 minutes actualy took a lot more time to do IC. Remember that the standard of time is not the same, in fact if I remember corectly 1 RL day is 2 weeks in game.
  By taking that into account if you decide to go and get a few things, you did not go all head out and chop, killed and harvest every thing in like 10 min IC no you did that in many many hours, just the walk and the stalk to look at the old animal that is barely surviving, or to make sure it is not a femal with cubs. To go around the forest and getting the wood from trees that are not progressing due to being overshadowed by the older trees and putting a strugle on the growth of the tree that you are facing. The many hours walking around to find a bush of cramberies and by luck when you actualy find one there is 2 or 3 more in its vacinity.
  Time is an extreamly important factor IC but there is one also in RL that you have to concider.  Who said that you needed to absolutly advance to a high degree in any craft within a month.  I'm going to give you the example of Rain.  IT took me a good what 4 months if not more to get him to where he is now, and hes not that high. Oh yes hes what the 4rth in line for infusing ( was 4th now is 7th due to lack of supplies and not playing him as much), but realy take a look on how many people are infusing and youll see its not hard to get to where i am just because of the fact its not an art that is popular du to the fact that if you dont do everything for yourself, you are totaly dependable on the craft of others, and that is what Rain is. He works with a team of crafter, providing them with some materials they need and in return they provide him with the enchanted gems, the staff, the fine cut (at first) gems he needed to work his craft.
  Protecting nature and the balance is not stopping to use nature, its only making sure that what you do is not overexploiting nature in keeping in mind the time diference there is with IC and RL. In the time of the celtic druids, do you realy think they did not actualy go and get the items they needed to brew their healing potions and stuff? They all had to learn from a mentor. Its only in this game that we think that for Druids and Cleric all comes naturaly, when in fact what a lot of you are forgeting, is that your persona had to learn from mentors that they had these abilities first and how to use them in the apropriate manner.
  SO yes a druid can become good at what he does in crafting, might be longer than other RL and even longer IC, and that is a perfect way of rping that you are learning a craft with going very slowly in it to make sure you are not "defiling" nature.

[Dorganath]

I would say again that not all crafts are appropriate for druids because of the amount of resources some of them take and the conflict they bring with dogma.
  By the same token, tailoring would probably be a poor choice for an Aeridinite because there are a limited number of things one can do in that craft without killing lots of animals.

[Hellblazer]

I agree, but it still comes down to how you r are rping the time in game. Lex has not realy set onto a craft, he did some crafting with wood but only as part of a gift for someone. I dont realy know if I will be doing any crafting with him except for enchanting for potions. But like i said, it may be longer for druids or Aeridinite to become good in anycraft as long as you go slowly and only use things you got out of nessecity, like the pelt of animals because you were attacked and you needed to eat.
  It's only the want and the impatience of people that make them rush through crafting. I admit that sometime I feel like i wish i was better,but to rp truly within the views of his dogma, beside the gift he made, everything else crafting wise he does slowly.

[ycleption]

I'm bumping this thread, asking the team to reconsider changing the roll used (or the timer).

Most of the arguments both pro and con have been made above, so I'm not going to waste too much space reiterating them. To my mind, it goes far more against the druidic ethos (for most druids) to buy from someone who cuts down trees (even in a forest friendly manner), than to teach oneself to craft using what nature provides the individual druid. It's just very difficult to understand why druids shouldn't be able to easily work with nature's bounty, to make a few tools for their use. Especially given the relative paucity of spot/search enhancing gear in the game, it does seem a bit unfair that the mechanic is geared to the class, rangers, that don't actually mechanically need it.

I'm not asking for foraging give the same amount of wood that cutting can give, and I realize that the the system is certainly preferable to one where druids can't harvest wood at all, but it gets very frustrating when every other class can gather every cnr without a possibility of not getting anything.

[stolen]

I agree with arguments on both sides of the fence here, but even if its not as much as you get from cutting down trees a druid should be able to find a little more than what is provided. It really makes sence for them to be able to find what they need to use for their own goods.
And what about foraging for skins. Why wouldnt a druid be able to happen apon, say, a pride of lions and search around for where one has died and retrieve the skin.
I try to rp that I only take the sick and dying animals, but it would kinda make as much sence that they could forage for skins as for wood or food.

[twidget658]

To my mind, it goes far more against the druidic ethos (for most druids) to buy from someone who cuts down trees (even in a forest friendly manner), than to teach oneself to craft using what nature provides the individual druid. It's just very difficult to understand why druids shouldn't be able to easily work with nature's bounty, to make a few tools for their use.

 
 A bite at a time here. Chopping 'trees'... I have never seen it as chopping a tree. To me, the tree disappearing is only a mechanic that says that all the good branches or branches with in reach are taken. Of course it depends on the size of the tree, but most harvestable trees are old trees that have a very large circumference. Very hard to make a bow from a tree trunk. Instead, there are only certain small circumference branches that are flexible enough to make a bow without a lot of work. Shield on the other hand are made from larger branches, but not tree trunks. Plus, how are you going to carry a whole tree? It only make sense that when someone is foraging or chopping at a tree, s/he is only collecting branches about six feet in length and about two to four inches in diameter. Most trees will prosper from this type of pruning. It normally produces more limbs and makes a tree 'fully'.
 
 In summary, pruning promotes growth, new limbs and generally makes a tree more healthy.
 
 

Especially given the relative paucity of spot/search enhancing gear in the game, it does seem a bit unfair that the mechanic is geared to the class, rangers, that don't actually mechanically need it. .

 
 As far as picking branches up from the ground or foraging, how long will a branch last on the ground before it is no longer usable due to rot and water damage? Not long at all. In addition, how would a healthy branch with the dimension stated above end up on the ground in the first place? Wind storm or something in the tree that caused it to break off. This again supports the fact that these branches will have to be a small diameter branch.
 
 Rangers are very resourceful. They can make the most out of things that they have grown up using. A ranger will use what ever is available. If there are good branches on the ground and they are all s/he needs, then why climb a tree to get more. Rangers should be efficient and not abusive because nature is also their livelihood.
 
 

I'm not asking for foraging give the same amount of wood that cutting can give, and I realize that the the system is certainly preferable to one where druids can't harvest wood at all, but it gets very frustrating when every other class can gather every cnr without a possibility of not getting anything.

 
 There is a limit to the number of branches. So if you forage and then chop, you will NOT exceed the limit. For example, you search the ground for branches you find four branches. Then you climb the tree and get some more branches. The most you would be able to find is six. Forage + Chop will not exceed 10. However, since druids cannot chop, maybe a 'druid modifier' that may increase your chance to find up to the 10? This could be rp'd as a tree 'giving up' its branches or lowering its branches that it needs 'trimmed'.
 
 From what I have gathered from your last statement, there is a chance that you can forage and not find anything. Whereas, all other CNR is guaranteed at least one item. Is this a foraging issue or is it a 'unable to get at least one item' issue on a certain CNR?

[ycleption]

Just to address you initial point, my description of "chopping" was a mechanical description, not an RPed one.

 From what I have gathered from your last statement, there is a chance that you can forage and not find anything. Whereas, all other CNR is guaranteed at least one item. Is this a foraging issue or is it a 'unable to get at least one item' issue on a certain CNR?

To me, it's more the ability to get at least one piece of CNR per outing (via foraging). I'm not really concerned that foraging produces less wood on average, as you've described Twidget, I don't think it makes RP sense that it would.

The roll for foraging wood is 2d0+ search + spot against a DC of 30.
So if you have no ranks in either skill, you'll find wood on about one out of six trips that you take to get it (11+10+9.../400). This is really too small to be meaningful.
Pallena, casting empowered fox's cunning and cat's grace, and wearing jaguar armor (which she owns just for foraging), can get a maximum of 15 for combined search and spot, which means she's getting wood somewhere around three out of four trips. This may not sound like cause for complain, but it really can be disheartening to not even -get- to the crafting bench on fairly regular basis, especially when you consider it in conjunction with the timer.

[HooD!uM]

what about changing the wait time of 90 to say 60..?  im saying this as there is alot of forests around and searching from one to another is fruitless while foraging..taking 30 minutes off wouldnt unbalance the system would it?