THE ULTIMATE WEAPON

[hawklen]

*he reads up and shrugs*

I'm giving the scythe a try. I never used the weapon, see what happens.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I like how this turned from a discussion of weapons, to an argument as to whats better, an Epic WM or an Epic Duelist.

[Jearick Hgar]

ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007  9:21 PM

I like how this turned from a discussion of weapons, to an argument as to whats better, an Epic WM or an Epic Duelist.

you asked what the best weapon was. Stephen said rapier in the hadns of a duelist and i said scimitar in the hands of a WM. and we both gave you our reasons.

if you don't want specific builds to bring out the weapon then here's a chart.

Best damage: scythe
Best crit range: Scim or rapier
Best all around: Bastard sword or katana

Reasons: Scythes can do rediculous amounts of damage. you don't want buidls so i wont give them. but i have seen builds than can get a scythe crit damage in the thousands. they also do 2d6 damage, that's a minimum of 2 damage, and a max of 12, without str bonus, bufs, or crit. then on top of tha. on top of that they are two handed, so you +str + half o your str to damage. continueing on they are both slashing and peircing damage. so if someone has +agaisnt slashing then it switches to peircing and the bonuses are ignored.

Scims and rapiers have 12-20 crit range, 10-20 with keen edge. nothing else needed

Bastard and katana do 1d10 damage, which is good for a one handed wep, don't think any other wep does mroe than that. plus they have a 14-20 crit range with improved crit. 12-20 with keen edge

One might argue that the dwarven battle axe is better, cuz it does 1d10 and has X3 crit instead of X2, but it's crit range is 20, 19-20 with improved crit, and 18-20 with keen edge. big difference.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Scythes are 2d4/x4. That's a max of 16 on a crit in the hands of someone with no STR bonus. It counts as a slashing weapon for the purposes of Keen. In the hands of a WM, that goes to 19-20/x5, and 17-20/x5 with keen edge.

Scimitars and rapiers have 18-20/x2, but the rapier is piercing rather than slashing.

The bastard sword/katana has 19-20/x2 with 1d10 damage, and it's slashing.

3.5 rapiers have 17-20 crit range, and are therefore better (correct me if I'm misremembering).

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*?  Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage.  With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x?  plus 3d6 from Over Crit?  Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point

*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be.  You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end?  What do you think would do the most damage?

[Millan]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/18/2007  1:35 AM

Scythes are 2d4/x4. That's a max of 16 on a crit in the hands of someone with no STR bonus. It counts as a slashing weapon for the purposes of Keen. In the hands of a WM, that goes to 19-20/x5, and 17-20/x5 with keen edge.

Scimitars and rapiers have 18-20/x2, but the rapier is piercing rather than slashing.

The bastard sword/katana has 19-20/x2 with 1d10 damage, and it's slashing.

3.5 rapiers have 17-20 crit range, and are therefore better (correct me if I'm misremembering).

No Rapiers are still 18-20 in 3.5.

[Jearick Hgar]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007  10:35 PM

Scythes are 2d4/x4. That's a max of 16 on a crit in the hands of someone with no STR bonus. It counts as a slashing weapon for the purposes of Keen. In the hands of a WM, that goes to 19-20/x5, and 17-20/x5 with keen edge.

Scimitars and rapiers have 18-20/x2, but the rapier is piercing rather than slashing.

The bastard sword/katana has 19-20/x2 with 1d10 damage, and it's slashing.

3.5 rapiers have 17-20 crit range, and are therefore better (correct me if I'm misremembering).

you pretty much restated what i said, i wa sonyl wrong with the scythe, thought it did 2d6 not 2d4. stillt eh scythe is uber powerful damage wise.

[Talan Va'lash]

ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007  12:55 PM  I'm wondering about what the ultimate weapon would be In Layo.  And I mean as a straight, unenchanted blade(except keen).  Meaning I wonder what the best, plain forged, weapon would be if combined with the feets , Improved Critical, , and Keen Edge (as a weapon property, already built in [ex Keen Greatsword]).  Any and all ideas are welcome, as well as if something even better is possible.

 You will not find a weapon with the keen propertry on Layonara.  Well, there are 2 or 3 on the whole server but all in all my above statement has good odds.  Edit: oh and the only reason scythe is better numbers wise than the scimitar for a str based weapon master is because WM feats ADD to crit range rather than MULTIPLYING the original range. The two handed str bonus to dmg and higher base dmg die are offset by the lack of a shield.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

It is, but it makes the same sacrifice that Greatswords do... Defense.

[Jearick Hgar]

ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007  10:43 PM

Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*?  Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage.  With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x?  plus 3d6 from Over Crit?  Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point

*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be.  You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end?  What do you think would do the most damage?

the most Damage is Scythe by far. with jsut 18 str, thats +6 damage with the scythe. so your doing 8-14 dmg, then add weapon focus 9-15, so at level 1 you could do 9-15 damage. then you add crit. and that's 36-45 damage. adn that's jsut level 1 with a copepr scythe, and int he hands of a human. level 20 WM half orc could easily have a base of 24 str could have two +2 to strs, so 28 str, with weapon focus, and a addy scythe with 1d6 or 1d8 fire damage. put that all out. so you got 2-8(base) + 13(str and two handed) + 2(encahntment) +1d8(fire) +1(weapon spec). that's a min of 19 damage, and a max of 32 no crit. throw in the WM crit that's a min of 91 max of 128. that's not addign allt eh thigns a mage can do to you and your scythe. as far as weps go, scythe bar far doe sthe most damage.

[Talan Va'lash]

Jearick Hgar - 2/18/2007  12:24 AM

ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007  10:43 PM

Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*?  Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage.  With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x?  plus 3d6 from Over Crit?  Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point

*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be.  You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end?  What do you think would do the most damage?

the most Damage is Scythe by far. with jsut 18 str, thats +6 damage with the scythe. so your doing 8-14 dmg, then add weapon focus 9-15, so at level 1 you could do 9-15 damage. then you add crit. and that's 36-45 damage. adn that's jsut level 1 with a copepr scythe, and int he hands of a human. level 20 WM half orc could easily have a base of 24 str could have two +2 to strs, so 28 str, with weapon focus, and a addy scythe with 1d6 or 1d8 fire damage. put that all out. so you got 2-8(base) + 13(str and two handed) + 2(encahntment) +1d8(fire) +1(weapon spec). that's a min of 19 damage, and a max of 32 no crit. throw in the WM crit that's a min of 91 max of 128. that's not addign allt eh thigns a mage can do to you and your scythe. as far as weps go, scythe bar far doe sthe most damage.

Weapon focus doesn't add damage... and weapon spec adds +2 damage. And you cant take it till level 6 fighter.

I mean, you're 100% right about the scythe, just not quite the right reason why.

----

I've always wanted to play a scythe char cause they look cool but never really will because ooc they're most often used in tasteless ways by tasteless people.


Unless you have a good IC reason to go with the scythe.. go with the halberd. It's way more tasteful, still uncommon, almost as good numbers wise, looks cool too, and has another special perk above the scythe. Plus pole arms would be way more common if this were real than they are IG.

[Jearick Hgar]

Talan Va'lash - 2/17/2007  11:27 PM

Jearick Hgar - 2/18/2007  12:24 AM

ShiffDrgnhrt - 2/17/2007  10:43 PM

Well Wouldnt a Great sword be better then *a scythe*?  Its does 2d6, a 19-20 range, and has a 2x crit, so 24 max damage.  With the feats improved Crit, and Ki Crit if a WM,* and keen*, that should turn into... a 13-20 crit range and... 3x?  plus 3d6 from Over Crit?  Is that right? Cause if it is, i thats what my WM is gonna end up with at some point

*I was kind of aiming at figuring out what the best weapon in the hands of the ultimate warrior class build would be.  You guys supplied the build nicely enough, but in the end?  What do you think would do the most damage?

the most Damage is Scythe by far. with jsut 18 str, thats +6 damage with the scythe. so your doing 8-14 dmg, then add weapon focus 9-15, so at level 1 you could do 9-15 damage. then you add crit. and that's 36-45 damage. adn that's jsut level 1 with a copepr scythe, and int he hands of a human. level 20 WM half orc could easily have a base of 24 str could have two +2 to strs, so 28 str, with weapon focus, and a addy scythe with 1d6 or 1d8 fire damage. put that all out. so you got 2-8(base) + 13(str and two handed) + 2(encahntment) +1d8(fire) +1(weapon spec). that's a min of 19 damage, and a max of 32 no crit. throw in the WM crit that's a min of 91 max of 128. that's not addign allt eh thigns a mage can do to you and your scythe. as far as weps go, scythe bar far doe sthe most damage.

Weapon focus doesn't add damage... and weapon spec adds +2 damage. And you cant take it till level 6 fighter.

I mean, you're 100% right about the scythe, just not quite the right reason why.

----

I've always wanted to play a scythe char cause they look cool but never really will because ooc they're most often used in tasteless ways by tasteless people.


Unless you have a good IC reason to go with the scythe.. go with the halberd. It's way more tasteful, still uncommon, almost as good numbers wise, looks cool too, and has another special perk above the scythe. Plus pole arms would be way more common if this were real than they are IG.

i agree one hudnred percent. the weapon focus was a typo btw, meant weapon spec. and i'ms ure weapon spec only gives +1 damage, it's the nchantment bonus that gives +2.

But ya, I don't ahve any chars that use Scythes. I like to base my weapon on my char nto my char ont he weapon. Tath uses the bastar5d sword for the round bladed weapon graphic he calls a "ch'kra". Jearick Uses a rapier cuz it's the gentleman's weapon, and Demetri uses a Hammer cuz it's a good symbolic representation of thunder, and he'll sometimes use a flail for the representation of chaos. I've been kidn thinking of using a halfling axe thrower heh

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Weapon Specialization does indeed give +2 to damage for the given weapon.

[Drizzlin]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/17/2007  11:21 PM

It is, but it makes the same sacrifice that Greatswords do... Defense.

Halfgiant *grins*

[Nibor21]

From a technical point of view this is an interesting discussion topic. That said I would like to discourage anyone from planning a character based upon it.

Layo is an RP server. Weapon and level choices should be based around the how your character develops in game and what happens to them. I know that on character creation you need to state a loose plan on what levels you intend to take, but i prefer to see in game events and actions determine the path of my character. Deciding that I will build X character with Y weapon because he will do Z damage at level can lead to rather mono-dimensional characters.

May favourite char is a Great-Axe wielding barbarian. She can do lots of damage. But she is hugely flawed with her AC. It is part of her. She rushes into battle with an AC of 19 (without buffs). 18 when raging. She has nearly permed, but it is her way and I try to be faithful to her and not changing her to do more damage or have a better AC I am still sad I had to change from a Maul to a greataxe (which does more damage)  (due to inability to select feats for custom weapons). She looked fantastic with a thumping great Maul over her shoulder and was a very recognizable character.

So all I am saying is yes it is interesting to see the weapon and class permutations, but when it comes to Layo, let the character limit the build. Don't make the build limit the character.

[hawklen]

*he nods to karana*

My dwarf Jal, I planned on him to be as original as I could. A dwarf weapon master of the scyth I havent seen around, and with him being CN, it makes the RP very interesting, along with his dislike for most dwaves. So far he only leans towards like two dwarves, because they wernt drunk, or blabbered about ale and typical dwarven things. And he is into more cold logic than emotion. So this could turn interesting

With an iron scythe, he averages around 15dmg a hit, and I've gotten I think a 67 crit. Now I just need to find a weapons master to ask questions and RP

To the others, thanks for all the weapon specs and stats, very interesting read.

[Talan Va'lash]

hawklen - 2/18/2007  3:32 AM

*he nods to karana*

My dwarf Jal, I planned on him to be as original as I could. A dwarf weapon master of the scyth I havent seen around, and with him being CN, it makes the RP very interesting, along with his dislike for most dwaves. So far he only leans towards like two dwarves, because they wernt drunk, or blabbered about ale and typical dwarven things. And he is into more cold logic than emotion. So this could turn interesting

With an iron scythe, he averages around 15dmg a hit, and I've gotten I think a 67 crit. Now I just need to find a weapons master to ask questions and RP

To the others, thanks for all the weapon specs and stats, very interesting read.

Just because you use a scythe doesn't mean you have to take Weapon Master levels.

[hawklen]

No I dont. *shrugs* Its just different

[Frelinder]

Ther parry mode can just parry equal amount of attacks that the characters have each round. If the character have four attacks every round but can only parry three it is bugged.

A weaponmaster in scimithar have a crit range of 13-20.. atleast mine do.. with a mage casting keen on it is 10-20.

Weaponmaster or duelist?

Weaponmaster is a damage fighter, duelist is an AC fighter. so its realy up to what kind ones wan't to play.

I would peroclaim that duelist is a bit better though due to their survavability..... extremly high AC... and not due to parry mode wich is often not even good against just one enemy. The double int AC modifyer bonus duelist gets at epic lvl its just insane!!!!!

[Varka]

I say skip the dmg and make a 500hp dwarf instead ... thereby you dont have to think about evading the first 2 hellballs *coughs*

Everyone goes dmg, try something else - great fun for both fighting and rping