i miss the old days

[Timmy0420]

does anyone else miss the old V2 days? when there was always someone at the hlint benches or at the wild surge. when a good story or a party to hack monsters with was never far. ahh the memories *tears up* i remember just hanging around with friends in the surge, chatting it up or drinking (or in tad's case smoking, heh ) then there was the time we saw 8 or 10 dwarves file out at the end of a long meeting, that was great. then there was the time at the benches celgar pulled this guy's chain about weapon enchantments. yes, too many memories to mention here im afraid
 
 now i know everyone is gonna give me the stormcrest argument, but noone ever  goes there anymore either. for a while there people did hang around the place. *sighs* nowadays its a wasteland. everything feels so disjointed. no place to meet up with people, everyone is using 'birds' for everything.
 
 so, to tie up and end this long rant, does anyone have any suggestions on how to help this problem? or maybe some memories from the good old days? *smiles*

[LynnJuniper]

You know I'm inclined to agree here. I miss the Hlint benches and the good old platform. I just wish more people would gather up at Stormcrest, I really do. I do understand where you're coming from though, it feels kind of disjointed, I can imagine it as being somewhat more so for a new character or player .

The suggestions I can give is just to slow down and sit somewhere for a while, if enough people do it we'll get our Hlint benches area (be it in Hlint or not) back again

[Interia_Discordius]

I find the pond area by Hempstead a good place to pause... It's right by everyting, so you always seem to find people there.

[Odranoela]

I ceated Lino and started playing like three days or so before V3 was launched...Not really sure how many days exactly.
 On Lino's first day in Hlint, he met a drow wizard and his half giant brute friend, and he met human fighters male and female, lots of people just from sitting at those benches. I found work as a rogue to open some crypt doors and a GM even watched and made sure it was good RP.
I guess you could say V3 shaked things a little bit, but the team made serious effort to have it launched, and as many agree, it is brilliant work. The world is amazingly beautiful and there are many things to do.
I say give it a little more time, and eventually people will choose places to hang out and then their friends and their friend's friends will come.. Eventually there will be places just like Hlint was, maybe not so welcoming, but they'll be there. I have faith on layo.
Just my opinion.

Lino

[Acacea]

I actually dislike the pond outside of Hemp for the same primary reason I was hoping the starting areas would not be tweaked to give comfy delightfully flower filled places for friendlier gathering - dark ages aside, it adds three ideal gathering places instead of one good one and two sub-par ones. Before the pond was added, few people really hung out in Hempstead.

Now that the Hlint pond has moved to outside the gates, anyone can hang out there, even Vehl people (note, meaning monster races, not just humans inclined towards Vehl), because it's not within the city...so half hang out there, a few hang out still in Stormcrest, and fewer likely still putter around Vehl. I liked it better when they were just shuttled to the center point, really, and would have sooner put an ad in each starting town for it or some signs or something than stick yet another hang out spot close to the others - if that makes any sense.

As far as missing the Hlint benches, it was almost always a ghost town during the later days I played anyway, so I don't really associate "always someone to talk to" with "V2" but rather "a good time zone."

[Drizzlin]

I do not share those same feelings at all. I was always disapointed that the huge cities, which should be filled with people, were always bare. My opinion, one of the single best changes with V3, was making port hempsted into the central hub. Finally, when I enter those gates, I see people and it feels like a large city.

[kenty191]

I'm taking Karn back to Hlint more and more these days, sometimes alone, sometimes in a group. I wonder if anyone would be up for a expidition to...wait for it...Hlint!

Any takers?

[Pen N Popper]

I am very opinionated on this topic.  I am a huge fan of a reasonably sized city (much smaller than Hempstead) where adventurers go between travels.  The benches I don't care for as I see them as entirely too OOC.  A functional non-NPC tavern (for the ones with nondiscriminating taste), and a functional non-NPC inn (for the folks of a higher social status).

Sitting at a corner of a dark tavern evesdropping on conversations is so much nicer than sitting on the ground in the rain.

I have not yet found a place to park Bumblebee that sees a lot of traffic.  Too few players given too many choices.  Spontaneous tavern RP all the way!

[Acacea]

I also agree that huge cities should not be bare, and in general advocate making locations come alive as much as possible without crippling it. I simply don't think we have the population to support many starting hubs.* In addition, no changes were made to the grand city to make it that was as posted ...rather, something rural was just added outside of it, instead.

In addition, all cities will always be bare to some degree, devoid of population...or else the server would collapse under its own weight.

* To clarify, I am actually FOR having two starting locations... I really like having different 'feels' for the types of people gravitating to the two different areas without separating by something so OOC as alignment, and being able to make monster races unwelcome in most cities but still having a place to do their starting purchasing and quests. It's the 'collection zones' I'm talking about... I'm just of the opinion that while two starts = good, population splitting = dangerous...and think having the collection in the center was a good practice.

[Kolskeggr]

I'm in agreement with PnP.  I think a tavern or Inn is a great gathering spot.  A place to meet and greet new people.  Heck, I'd even buy the house a drink...*rumages through pouch*  Um...heh, Could someone spot me a few Trues?

Kolskeggr

[Timmy0420]

i understand the whole thing about cities, but they are gonna be relatively empty regardless.(unless they add more NPCs but that adds all kinds of lag im sure) im not talking about the moving of the start cities, im talking about the lack of community and having some place where theres always someone to chat with or a party to find. while stormcrest will never be better than the hlint benches or wild surge, its certainly better than nothing.
 
 i think what im trying to get across here is, hang out at storm crest! thats what it's there for!
 i also like kenty's idea *nods* i think tad is actually starting to miss the boring little berg he grew up in : D

[Pen N Popper]

I agree!  Stormcrest is pretty darn nice.  It does have a non-NPC tavern setting and the ever-loved benches.  Two sets of benches, in fact.  It is at a crossroads so should be busy.

[Nehetsrev]

Personally, I think the server population just needs a bit more time to get used to the Stormcrest as a gathering spot.  This will also require, as others have stated, slowing down and making a conscious effort to spend a bit of time making use of the spot on the part of all of us as individuals.

As a side note, though I initially tried to spend a lot of time in Vehl as Emwonk's starting town, after a while it just seemed too 'closed in' in comparrison to the wide-open spaces of Hempstead.  In some parts of Vehl, it's hard to navigate unless you tilt your camera to a nearly top-down perspective, which I find lowers my own ability to remain immersed.  Don't get me wrong though, I love Vehl's architechture, I just wish it was a little more 'open'.  Though, I suppose it could also be argued that the claustraphobic feel of Vehl helps add to it's more sinister mood, atmosphere, and setting.  Another plus to the compact nature of Vehl is that running from the crafting hall to the crafting vendor or other such tasks takes less time, since everything is closer together.

[Acacea]

Buildings too close together can make navigation a pain with Vehl's tileset, yeah. You come across the atmosphere vs practicality thing a lot without the tile fade, I think. Makes building tricky.

[Talan Va'lash]

after a while it just seemed too 'closed in' in comparrison to the wide-open spaces of Hempstead.

This was totally my intent with that area. Also I wanted all PC traffic to go through the same area (the central walk through the main town) when passing through rather than have many different paths they could take through the city so that people would meet up rather than miss each other.

Vehl also needs a ship connection to hempstead. Currently you can sail to vehl from hempstead but you have to go Vehl->Mariner's Hold->Hempstead to get back.

[hawklen]

Hmm, maybe have Stormcrest as a starting location too? *winks*

I do try to go to stormcrest as much as I can, Kinai and Hawk go there quite a bit, and the other day there was Akki and a few others and a sea elf who didnt speak common. It was pretty fun, and I laugh alot at Akki's swimming. I think it went like this on her end:

/o c falls, *swim swim swim*

[Chongo]

Hey there folks.
 
 Keep your heads up.
 
 Look for changes.
 
 Be optimistic.
 
 Good things are coming to pool the natural traffic of players.
 
 Good things are coming for all.
 
 
 
 
 
 ...that's my take at least.  *wink*
 
 O.o

[Tanman]

Hmm, maybe have Stormcrest as a starting location too? *winks*

Seriously, that is not a bad idea. . .or have it spawning somewhere near the area, like Dapplewood. This would be perfect for wemic characters and sea elves.

In regards to the good old Hlint days....I think the new people are still adventuring around Layonara seeing what is out there especially when their levels are high enough while there are others that enjoy the adventuring aspect.

I would dare say that judging from this post that there are a few that are looking for that common ground. As LynnJuniper says, "slow down and sit somewhere for a while, if enough people do it we'll get our Hlint benches area (be it in Hlint or not) back again".

I personally think that StormCrest is the place to be and I am sure that eventually that would be our new "Hlint" when there are enough people that  just want to sit, talk and have fun Roleplaying.

[kuchida]

To be honest I forget about Stormcrest some times, since it isn't on the path I normally take, and when I want to people watch and role play the tree between the cotton and kobold camp seems like the best spot, lots of traffic and good scenery..

But I do think there are a few simple things I think could bring people to Stormcrest a bit more..  Because right now when it's empty it feels VERY empty, and it may be quite a while before someone else arrives who wants to chat.. Unlike other high traffic areas like the one I mentioned or the town square when you're pretty certain sooner or later someone you know (or someone new) will pass by..

.. Like make it where you end up when taking a portal to West...  

...Adding a campfire to rest at (like the one outside Hlint.. that was always a great meeting place too)..  

...Adding a bartender to sell food and drinks..

... And really I think something like the old postmaster and fur trader quests should be from there too to make it a place new characters go..  And make them ask for help from the veterans hanging around and notice the guides sign..

...And I guess the card game is being moved there which will be an attraction too..

Just a few things like that would increase the reasons to go, and then stay.  The thing about the benches at Hlint were that they were good places to sit because they were the center of the universe and sooner or later just about everyone on the server was going to pass by for one reason or other. Stormcrest isn't quite that, it's  a great place to role play, but not a great place to sit and wait to be seen.

[Laldiien]

I'm confused.  On the one hand, people want a location where we all can go and tell stories and sing songs and make nice.  Sounds good, sign me up.

On the other hand, people want to make sure those terrible monstrous races stay right where they belong and they better not dare encroach on the good guys turf.

So if I am reading the desire correctly, we want a place where a PC can go, listen to stories and be shunned, ridiculed and possibly beaten to death.

*blinks*

I do miss V2 in a way.  The lines were much clearer.  If you saw a PC, based on prior interactions, he was A) A good guy, let's go have a scintillating RP session or B) an arrogant jerk that you dislike.  

There wasn't this self-imposed "us vs. them" mentality.  WE were the good guys, THEY (Bloodstone & Co.) were the bad guys and they made a satisfying THUMP when they hit the ground.  

NWN, and I would argue, Layonara was not designed around the PvP, good vs. evil split.  Let's look at this logically:

1) You are a righteous paladin of Toran.  You go to church, you are a paragon of virtue and you are nice to kittens and little children.  You see an orc/goblin/troll/bugbear/glowing wisp coming up the path and looking a park bench where a few children are playing.  Do you casually walk up, say "Howdy and may I please split you in twain?  No.  You attack.  You kill you end the threat.  You don't use a PvP widget and ask permission, you just do it.

2) You are a sensitive, new age dark elf/goblin/orc/troll/bugbear.  You have decided that even though your family, friends, society and race are murderous, calloused, evil, hard hearted warriors, you want to live a life of peace and harmony.  You have deftly succeeded in hiding your true nature for these many years and have not been killed as weak, or mentally deficient, so you make you way to civilized lands.  See number 1 above.

I can see the split, though.

There is nothing wrong showing hostility towards a monstrous races (in character of course). It helps with the immersion of the world and make for some interesting RolePlay. Please note though...this is no excuse to make personal attacks OOC to somebody. Everything stays IC. Also this also doesn’t mean that things can’t change in terms of the creature’s reputation. But in general, if the creature is not well known, and it looks scary...and monstrous. I think it should be Roleplayed as such.

and

Hmm, maybe have Stormcrest as a starting location too? *winks*
 

Seriously, that is not a bad idea. . .or have it spawning somewhere near the area, like Dapplewood. This would be perfect for wemic characters and sea elves.

In regards to the good old Hlint days....I think the new people are still adventuring around Layonara seeing what is out there especially when their levels are high enough while there are others that enjoy the adventuring aspect.

So, being that I am one that hats to poke fun and not not have a solution here are my suggestions:

1) Make the server all PvP, all the time.  No permission required.  You see an evil race, you kill them.  You are evil and you want to be evil, you go rampaging through town and eat all the tasty babies you can, before the guard force beats you into pudding.  Personally, I'd leave the server as I have an inherent distaste for PvP, but, I'm one guy and the wants of the many out weigh the wants of the one.

2) Bring back the concept of the "Dragoncalled".  We are all here for a purpose, and while we make not like each other, we have some common ground.  PvP is still an option, but then works with the widget.  

3) Eliminate monstrous races from the server.  We can all be human/dwarven/elven/halfling and still be evil.  Nothing is Kill on site, PvP by permission still works.

What we have now does not work.  It's not internally consistent, it doesn't make sense and it strains credulity.