The Armory of Karrack and Search for it...

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

This has always been a bit interesting to me, as its in the LORE Legends section, because I have my Weapon Master who has a liking to rare weapons (mainly swords).  The idea of there once being a Guild composed of the Greatest Weapon Masters of the Age going missing and its prized Masterwork Weapons Disappearing to the pages of history makes me wonder...
 
 Can they be found...
 
 I ask because (you guess it) I'd want to find one some time (prolly as part of a WLDQ or post-WL CDQ).  It's plausible a number (if not all) of the weapons were passed down by someone through history as an heir loom of some kind, even if never used, and those lines that may have ended could easily have such a treasure hidden in a crypt or tomb somewhere, and even if they were stolen or still in use the pages of history would tell of Great Warriors wielding Wonderfully powerful/Crafted Weapons or great villians with cruel, ruthless weapons.
 
 So...  If one was looking for them...  Where would be the best place to start...  I was thinking the Great Library...

[minerva]

Something like this might be possible or the search might be fruitless as legends can infact have only a small basis of truth..they are after all , legends.
 
 One character already set out on this path, but sadly has faded into the fogs of time, but his search was not solo so even asking around in game might yield on of his comrades of Arms that searched with him.
 
 This is something that would take serveral CDQ's and maybe even utimately a WLDQ to persue.
 
 On your thinking of looking in the Great Library.. Why?
 (Hint- a bit of timeline investigation and questioning older characters in game might give you an answer)

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

So this would take a year to accomplish, your saying...  *sighs*  Several Cdqs means MAnY many months....
 
 Why the great library?  Look through the histories for any recurring tales of a warrior and a great weapon, that have some common reference to an attribute of the weapon like a seal or motiffe.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

While the Library has been gathering all sorts of new material over the past few decades, the majority of its shelves are filled with (as I understand) materials from before it sank.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I would then assume Shiff could find something like a record of names from the guild, manifests, all sorts of old records from the guild (if they existed there ever) and  then beginning searching through the other histories for common names and such

[EdTheKet]

Can they be found...

You can most certainly try, whether you find it we'll see, or if it even exists will remain unknown until you find it

While the Library has been gathering all sorts of new material over the past few decades, the majority of its shelves are filled with (as I understand) materials from before it sank.

Correct. The Great Library is not the solution to everyone's questions.

I would suggest to ask around a bit, and do a CDQ to get your timelines and known "facts" straight.

[lonnarin]

You might try asking around government buildings and historians... any place where knowledge of events and tax records tied to guild sales are meticulously stored.  Aragen's clergy also has a very obsessed practice of Collecting notes on EVERYTHING they come across of interest, and try to make sure their knowledge makes it back into the temples even bigger tomes.  Dorandite clergy are obsessed with workmanship and masterworks as well, so no doubt there are some old legendary smiths somewhere with a story or two, their versions of saints no doubt are revered for making artifact calibre items.  Then there are always bard tales of great men who did great deads with wicked items of reknown, though how much of those are truth or fish tale is much to be speculated.

As stated above, a CDQ is a great opportunity to go treasure hunting, especially since you'd need a GM there to give you whatever you found in the first place.  Might be a ood opportunity to flex that wicked buried chest system we have for a massive scavenger hunt of clues.    

Good luck on your treaure hunting.  And no looking for Coup De Grace...  I have dibs!

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

The sword I'm looking for is considerable Bigger    Oi...  I dont wanna waste two months before I can do my WLDQ...  Especially since I can apply soon!  >.<

[EdTheKet]

The sword I'm looking for is considerable Bigger    Oi...  I dont wanna waste two months before I can do my WLDQ...  Especially since I can apply soon!  >.<

Waste? Consider this then: if you want this to be feature in the WLDQ (should your application get the go ahead) then a CDQ would actually support that.

It further (or can futher) your character's goal in life, I would not call that a waste.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Thing is I don't know what I wanna do for a WLDQ yet (with certainty)  I have many Ideas, this one of them, but you are right, I have little to support anything at the moment...

Only reason I used the word waste, is it "could" be one, should my/Shiff's goal end up not being finding said Artifact.

[EdTheKet]

Thing is I don't know what I wanna do for a WLDQ yet (with certainty)  I have many Ideas, this one of them, but you are right, I have little to support anything at the moment...

That's why the GMs decide on what it's going to be about. We always try to have something in that a player wants, but it's never what they asked for

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I thought you needed a good reason for it though?  I mean if Shiff wanted to clear out Haven Mines Permanently  why would a DM pick something else as a WLDQ?

[Nehetsrev]

I thought you needed a good reason for it though?  I mean if Shiff wanted to clear out Haven Mines Permanently  why would a DM pick something else as a WLDQ?

I'm not a DM but here's an idea off the top of my head:  In going to the mines to clear them out Shiff encounters a ghost within the mines and is told by said ghosty that the mines are cursed, but the root of the curse lies elsewhere.  Coincidently, that other place is also said to be the resting place of both something very nasty of epic scale, and it's treasure horde.  However further investigation reveals said root of curse was actually bogus, the mines stay cursed and filled with gnolls.  To compicate the story further, in investigating the bogus root of the curse Shiff instead unwittingly unleashes a powerful demon upon the world and is forced to abandon his quest to clear the Haven Mines in favor of raising an army of powerful heroes to banish said demon back to wherever it came from.  In the end Shiff walks away with a rare treasure and a bit more knowledge and wisdom, or something nifty like that.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

*whispers quickly to Dorg and Leanthar*  Don't let him become a DM...

[Script Wrecked]

*puts his hand up for Nehetsrev's quest*

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I'm not a DM but here's an idea off the top of my head:  In going to the mines to clear them out Shiff encounters a ghost within the mines and is told by said ghosty that the mines are cursed, but the root of the curse lies elsewhere.  Coincidently, that other place is also said to be the resting place of both something very nasty of epic scale, and it's treasure horde.  However further investigation reveals said root of curse was actually bogus, the mines stay cursed and filled with gnolls.  To compicate the story further, in investigating the bogus root of the curse Shiff instead unwittingly unleashes a powerful demon upon the world and is forced to abandon his quest to clear the Haven Mines in favor of raising an army of powerful heroes to banish said demon back to wherever it came from.  In the end Shiff walks away with a rare treasure and a bit more knowledge and wisdom, or something nifty like that.

By the way,....  I think It would be deemed a failure if the above was a real CDQ/WLDQ

[Dorganath]

Several responses....

Thing is I don't know what I wanna do for a WLDQ yet (with certainty)  I have many Ideas, this one of them, but you are right, I have little to support anything at the moment...

You should be thinking less about what you want to "do" and more about what you might like your character to become. If you don't know what that is, then you shouldn't apply to become a WL, as it's one of the things we look for when evaluating applications.

Only reason I used the word waste, is it "could" be one, should my/Shiff's goal end up not being finding said Artifact.

Why?  It's not called a World Leader Find An Artifact Quest.  It's a World Leader Development Quest.  Perhaps in Shiff's search to find the artifact, he discovers something more...like a real purpose in his life.

I thought you needed a good reason for it though?  I mean if Shiff wanted to clear out Haven Mines Permanently  why would a DM pick something else as a WLDQ?

Why?  Because we don't just say "Oh, he wants this...OK!" and then hand it to the character on a silver platter.  This is true for CDQs as well as WLDQs.  What you get may not be exactly what you ask for, but it may be exactly right for your character.

I'm not a DM but here's an idea off the top of my head:  In going to the mines to clear them out Shiff encounters a ghost within the mines and is told by said ghosty that the mines are cursed, but the root of the curse lies elsewhere.  Coincidently, that other place is also said to be the resting place of both something very nasty of epic scale, and it's treasure horde.  However further investigation reveals said root of curse was actually bogus, the mines stay cursed and filled with gnolls.  To compicate the story further, in investigating the bogus root of the curse Shiff instead unwittingly unleashes a powerful demon upon the world and is forced to abandon his quest to clear the Haven Mines in favor of raising an army of powerful heroes to banish said demon back to wherever it came from.  In the end Shiff walks away with a rare treasure and a bit more knowledge and wisdom, or something nifty like that.

*grins*

*whispers quickly to Dorg and Leanthar*  Don't let him become a DM...

Heh....why not? Even a brief researching into Haven would reveal that it is "cursed" or "haunted" in a way that has no bearing on the ogres or gnolls that may inhabit it. Haven's been cleared out once, and it got filled in again by more powerful things, so what's to say that can't or won't happen again?

Creative thinking there Nehetsrev!

Even so, we rarely give players a scenario and/or outcome that is exactly what they want.  Why? Because life doesn't work that way.  Want to find your character's mother? Sure...only it turns out your character's mother was a rather popular *coughs* "lady of the night," or that she was a vicious killer, responsible for the slaughter of several villages and the enslavement of several more.

By the way,....  I think It would be deemed a failure if the above was a real CDQ/WLDQ

Are you sure? *sly grin* It depends on what else happened.  But even so, suppose it was.  Would the failure be in the outcome of the quest or in the goals themselves?

*gives you some time to ponder that*

The point of all the above is this:  The subject of a CDQ/WLDQ shouldn't necessarily be focused on the physical/tangible rewards as much as how it affects your character.  Sure, Shiff can go off in search of some ancient artifact...maybe he'll find it, and maybe he won't, but that in itself shouldn't necessarily dictate whether or not the quest is a success.  The goal should be focused on the way your character will be affected, not his arsenal.

Last point to consider:  There's no such thing as a "wasted" CDQ/WLDQ, as long as you, the player, recognize that even in failure, there is growth and development...which is what the "D" stands for in the name.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I think I TOTALLY Misunderstood what WLDQs meant...  I had always thought you were to create a goal, like you did for CDQs.  I mean the two I've been on were gear towards the goal I explained (resolving Shiff's Nightmare "Curse" [failed that one] and saving Valmara's Family [Succeeded])  so i assumed with a WLDQ you needed a similar goal in mind that the DMs would work with but...  Am I still wrong?

I do, yes, have an Idea on what I'd like Shiff to become.    I've had them for a long time.  Some might be obvious, other not, but I won't divulge here.  When I finish my Write up and make level 20 you will all get to see.  Some may be far fetched, others completely Plausible but, again, only time will tell.

So...  What am I missing?  Like I said I always thought the Player was supposed to provide some goal when submitting for WL.

[Fatherchaos]

Shiff,

While it's difficult to re-craft Dorg's responses, as I consider them very informative, perhaps I can shed some light on this through my own interpretation.

So here we go, Onawahya's interpretation of the difference between CDQ's and WLDQ:

Let's consider a CDQ & WLDQ as having a hierarchal relationship. The WLDQ is on top of the food chain while the CDQ is the subordinate.

At it's base a CDQ, from my perspective, can be regarded as a quest to fulfill a single "task." Tasks consist of - Finding a lost mother, locating a missing baby, saving a town from brownie mischif, revitalizing the ubersword of whosapawnsit (well maybe not the last one ).

So a CDQ should be considered a single task, semi-short term goal, etc. At the completion of a CDQ (or CDQs) the task is complete, you become a blademaster, etc., and can now continue to develop your characters storyline with the CDQ notch proudly displayed on your belt.

Now, a WLDQ as Dorgonath aptly said is what you want your character to "become." I interpreted this as more then just, "I want to become the hero of Janestown, the one called Jane." A WLDQ should be regarded more as "I want to become the Ambassador to the Murlocs, deeply in touch with their customs and beliefs, and take on all the duties and responsibilities there of." Again, this has a "task" identified, becoming the Ambassador to the Murlocs, but also takes with it all the ongoing requirements to maintain the status. So your character doesn't just perform task Y and get X reward, but instead "becomes" something more then when the character started.

Don't interpret this as "I want to become a weaponmaster" - that's short term task - once you're a weaponmaster it's a done deal. Yes you can train as a weaponmaster to get better, but there isn't much of an external force that would take your blademaster status away, except mabey as the result of another CDQ.

I wanted to reference the WLDQ and CDQ relationship as a President and his lackey, where the WLDQ president has to constantly perform a number of ongoing organic duties, his CDQ Lackey just gets to do a bunch of short term quests and reap some notable reward. But this didn't make as much sense

Since I'm at work I know I'm missing some key extrapolations and other ideas I'd like to mention, so I hope my first draft is of some assistance.

[EdTheKet]

I think I TOTALLY Misunderstood what WLDQs meant...  I had always thought you were to create a goal, like you did for CDQs.  I mean the two I've been on were gear towards the goal I explained (resolving Shiff's Nightmare "Curse" [failed that one] and saving Valmara's Family [Succeeded])  so i assumed with a WLDQ you needed a similar goal in mind that the DMs would work with but...  Am I still wrong?

I do, yes, have an Idea on what I'd like Shiff to become.    I've had them for a long time.  Some might be obvious, other not, but I won't divulge here.  When I finish my Write up and make level 20 you will all get to see.  Some may be far fetched, others completely Plausible but, again, only time will tell.

So...  What am I missing?  Like I said I always thought the Player was supposed to provide some goal when submitting for WL.

You need to mention what you would like or what you envisage. However, players are not GMs and are also not aware of all the things that go on and all the lore that's around.

That's why once you get approved for one and have a GM, the GM needs to come up with something. This something is then discussed with Leanthar, Harlas and myself, to ensure it all fits, has appropriate failure and success criteria (these are defined upfront to ensure that all WLDQs are of comparable difficulty) and can be done in the allotted time frame for WLDQs.

If you look at the Completed WLDQs and then compare what people did to what they asked for, you will get an idea.