Ask the Loremaster: Lucinda

[EdTheKet]

LORE: Lucinda is posted.

Major change: Total complete rewrite. Healing Domain gone.

I expect many questions here, but as you've seen my availability is limited the next week or so, so please forgive the late replies.

Still pending discussion: Trickery Domain (leave it in, or remove it altogether)

[Pibemanden]

Okay time for me to ask all the questions I have about this, I have been giving things a lot of thought so I hope the questions will make sense.

First of, for the still pending discussion; trickery domain or not. My take on this is that with the rewrite of the church/deity I don't find trickery fitting any more. My thoughts here are mostly biased on the assumption I had at some point that this rewrite of Lucinda would send her to chaotic good, however this didn't happen so I have to put my argument for having the domain sort of backwards...
I believe that due to both alignment and dogma reasons there are little reason for her to have trickery domain. The alignment doesn't say that she is straight against trickery but I would say that she wouldn't be supporting the trickery domain here in nwn. I just personally see it supporting too many things which Lucinda isn't about the way I read it.
Back in the day she had the ward for all the trickery persons which made sense, I do agree that persuade and search bonus makes sense for her in a way but the others are way over the top the way she is now. The way I read things she has moved her focus even more to magic than before, loosing all the domains which doesn't really do anything magic related would be more fitting for her and her clerics.

1) First question if rather fundamental for my approach to the whole church as a player of a paladin. I have noticed that the protectors(which is given the total rewrite) aren't mentioned anywhere, neither are paladins. So I am wondering if this means that there are no more paladins or if there are "something else" which right now has to be paladins for some of the more militaristic sects?

2) "There is a small Presage in the Kingdom of Sun, but it is limited to humans only." I am just wondering here, I know that it is clear that Sun kingdom wouldn't like elves there but I figure that the elves would be suggested to move to the other Presages on Alindor if they want to join?

3) "... those who would be swayed by the words of the Deep Lord", I am wondering if this is a more clear opposition to Rael than before? Like say, identifying as one of the enemies of magic and refusing to deal with him unless no other option is possible?

4) "The Octlar Mesh— ... the three Fosters, and the head of the Reaching" Who are the Fosters? They aren't mentioned anywhere except in this sentence.

5) "Risen do not find open arms in any of the Presages or on the Catena Campus" Uhmm... So why are they even part of the church? Is the issue that the view on all magic is neutral in essence been shifted to pushing part of the clergy out because they focus on something the population sees as bad, while the essence of the faith doesn't disagree?

6) Blackford Castle, somewhat unrelated to everything else, but the way I read it the people there are especially involved in the faith. Takes from their mother/wife the queen or such? I am essentially just wondering if the rulers of the Whitehorn kingdom are followers or not...

I guess that is all the questions I managed to come up with so far I will of course write here if there are more

[minerva]

I'll leave Ed to address these questions but as to let you know - all the deity updates were to be kept in the 2-3 page range.  In Lucinda's case this meant some major paring to try and get the essence of the faith into the 3 page limit.  There will be much more detailed information in the upcoming Pantheon book.
 
 The revamping of the deities was done with the MMO in mind.  Since this is a skill based system there is no class "paladin" per say.  A paladin's skills would most likely be represented as part of the Reaching.

[Dorganath]

The revamping of the deities was done with the MMO in mind.  Since this is a skill based system there is no class "paladin" per say.  A paladin's skills would most likely be represented as part of the Reaching.

This is correct.

[EdTheKet]

Okay time for me to ask all the questions I have about this, I have been giving things a lot of thought so I hope the questions will make sense.

First of, for the still pending discussion; trickery domain or not. My take on this is that with the rewrite of the church/deity I don't find trickery fitting any more. My thoughts here are mostly biased on the assumption I had at some point that this rewrite of Lucinda would send her to chaotic good, however this didn't happen so I have to put my argument for having the domain sort of backwards...
I believe that due to both alignment and dogma reasons there are little reason for her to have trickery domain. The alignment doesn't say that she is straight against trickery but I would say that she wouldn't be supporting the trickery domain here in nwn. I just personally see it supporting too many things which Lucinda isn't about the way I read it.
Back in the day she had the ward for all the trickery persons which made sense, I do agree that persuade and search bonus makes sense for her in a way but the others are way over the top the way she is now. The way I read things she has moved her focus even more to magic than before, loosing all the domains which doesn't really do anything magic related would be more fitting for her and her clerics.

As mentioned, it's under discussion, so I'll not comment for the time being.

1) First question if rather fundamental for my approach to the whole church as a player of a paladin. I have noticed that the protectors(which is given the total rewrite) aren't mentioned anywhere, neither are paladins. So I am wondering if this means that there are no more paladins or if there are "something else" which right now has to be paladins for some of the more militaristic sects?

As commented by Minerva, and confirmed by Dorg, this is because it's all written with the MMO in mind.

2) "There is a small Presage in the Kingdom of Sun, but it is limited to humans only." I am just wondering here, I know that it is clear that Sun kingdom wouldn't like elves there but I figure that the elves would be suggested to move to the other Presages on Alindor if they want to join?

Correct.

3) "... those who would be swayed by the words of the Deep Lord", I am wondering if this is a more clear opposition to Rael than before? Like say, identifying as one of the enemies of magic and refusing to deal with him unless no other option is possible?

That would be a correct assumption.

4) "The Octlar Mesh— ... the three Fosters, and the head of the Reaching" Who are the Fosters? They aren't mentioned anywhere except in this sentence.

They lead the Tenebrium.

5) "Risen do not find open arms in any of the Presages or on the Catena Campus" Uhmm... So why are they even part of the church? Is the issue that the view on all magic is neutral in essence been shifted to pushing part of the clergy out because they focus on something the population sees as bad, while the essence of the faith doesn't disagree?

They are a sect. While the three schools cover just about  everything a mage or cleric could want or need in the ways of learning magic, there are some people who choose to dive deeper into a specific area of the Al’Noth. Not all of them are welcome in the body of the Illumination.

6) Blackford Castle, somewhat unrelated to everything else, but the way I read it the people there are especially involved in the faith. Takes from their mother/wife the queen or such? I am essentially just wondering if the rulers of the Whitehorn kingdom are followers or not...

It was the home of Allurial, the previous Peractio, so everyone who lived/lives there would be exposed to things Lucinda all the time. As it happens, Allurial's successor who now rules there is a Lucindite, yes.

I guess that is all the questions I managed to come up with so far I will of course write here if there are more

Sounds good

[Pibemanden]

Right I have come up with another question;

I still don't understand why the paladin skillset is tied up in the Reaching. I can see that, yes they do what the paladins used to do except protect the members of faith (not saying a member of the Reaching wouldn't do this, but it isn't mentioned as one of their key areas). But the way I read the schools it is sort of like the old dawnwoven/nightwoven thing, you start at the Presage then after being taught the basics you move to the Thaumaturge and if you want to, and are suited for it, you move to the Reaching.

The way I understand the information given here on the forums are that all Paladins are part of the Reaching?

Secondly I believe that the title Protector is gone as well with the old lore, isn't it so?

Third, I was wondering if it would be possible to get the ranking of the PC members of the church posted on the Lucinda forum?

[Dorganath]

Bearing the usual disclaimer that Ed can correct me if I'm wrong...

Protectors were not just to protect members of the faith but Magic as well.  One could argue the latter is their primary goal. Sometimes, that protection requires a militant skill set, and that was the idea behind the Protectors.  They meld physical arms with arcane magic and divine blessings all their own.  As to how they fit into the Reaching, well...reading about the Reaching, it's all about keeping the Al'noth from harm, of being vigilant and devoted to that sort of cause, which is rather fitting in that way.

As for the schools and the old rankings...the Presage, Thaumaturge and Reaching are not really "ranks" as such.  The organizational structure is rather flat in contrast to the old lore, and membership in one of those three is more voluntary than something bestowed through service.  Yes, there is likely some degree of competence that must be displayed, I'm sure, but I don't think they imply rank at all, simply the person's place along their journey of Magic.

To look at them another way, the Presage is high school, Thaumaturge is the university and the Reaching is post-graduate school.

Ed will have to comment on the Protector title.

As for ranking PC members, again, ranks don't quite apply, unless a PC holds a specific position within the church (like a Docet or Scrollregent).  Currently, no PCs hold any of these titles.

If desired, I could dump the list of active Lucindites with their classes, but that's not necessarily going to give you who ranks where, mostly because the concept doesn't really apply so much anymore.

[EdTheKet]

Dorganath is correct.

Regarding the Protector title. We're keeping that in NWN, but you will not find it in the Pantheon book.

[Pibemanden]

To look at them another way, the Presage is high school, Thaumaturge is the university and the Reaching is post-graduate school.

...

If desired, I could dump the list of active Lucindites with their classes, but that's not necessarily going to give you who ranks where, mostly because the concept doesn't really apply so much anymore.

What I wanted is then where are the IG Lucindites with regards to this system? Are they in the Presage, Thaumaturge, Reaching or other?

[Dorganath]

Most would be in the Presage or Thaumaturge, though in reading through things again, it would seem that one would not spend much time in the Presage at all, and by the time a PC gets started in-game, they have already passed to the Thaumaturge.  So unless I've misinterpreted grossly, I'd say just about everyone would be associated with the Thaumaturge at this point.

The Reaching is generally a CDQ, I believe, except for paladins.

[EdTheKet]

After some discussion, we've decided to indeed remove Trickery too, as it no longer fits.

This does not affect any PCs.

[EdTheKet]

All of LORE: Lucinda can now be accessed through the main Lucinda page.

[Pibemanden]

Just a few questions..

1) Scrollregent Umbek Haggerstan is lacking race information, I would figure that he is probably human but what is he?

2) Rork O'Mallory ..  Again it says he is a man, and I know he is a human, but the text doesn't specify it

3) Misty Guanistas, Again race?

[EdTheKet]

Just a few questions..

1) Scrollregent Umbek Haggerstan is lacking race information, I would figure that he is probably human but what is he?

2) Rork O'Mallory ..  Again it says he is a man, and I know he is a human, but the text doesn't specify it

3) Misty Guanistas, Again race?

Thanks, basically when no race is specified, somebody is human.

[Gulnyr]

On the Sects page is this:

The Love and Magic sect follows the tenants of both Ilsare and Lucinda...

I'm pretty sure no one lives in Ilsare or Lucinda; they don't have tenants.  The word you need is tenets.

"Follows the tenants" is funny, though, like they're some sort of weird stalkers.  "Hey!  I recognize that guy.  He lives at 312 Lucinda.  We need to shadow him."

[EdTheKet]

On the Sects page is this:

I'm pretty sure no one lives in Ilsare or Lucinda; they don't have tenants.  The word you need is tenets.

"Follows the tenants" is funny, though, like they're some sort of weird stalkers.  "Hey!  I recognize that guy.  He lives at 312 Lucinda.  We need to shadow him."

*chuckles* Thanks.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Yay English homonyms!

[miltonyorkcastle]

I'm pretty sure no one lives in Ilsare or Lucinda; they don't have tenants. The word you need is tenets.

Fixed. Also, see here.

[EdTheKet]

LORE: Lucinda now has a picture of the Lady of Spells!

[EdTheKet]

On LORE: Lucinda: Sects the Dragonlinks and the Risen have been updated.