NPC story tellers, representing the EPIC PC Story quests.

[Hellblazer]

Basically, have npc's (either copies or just bards) placed around Layonara, to complete the PC's quests.

I'm sure, their stories are documented somewhere, and it would then enable PC's to complete those quests, even if the PC that they are supposed to find to get the story, isn't on or playing anymore.

[Acacea]

I think... that they should just be taken out. Seriously. I've asked before if I can just "have" ones that people don't want anymore, but regardless, you can leave the NPCs there suggesting to talk to someone, but people get weird when there is an uncompleted journal entry for whatever reason. It HAS to be completed. Now!

The whole point of those quests was for PC interaction, not just for the information itself. It was to encourage mingling. Being so outdated, in my opinion in a few cases it led more to stalking than anything else, heh, but it put the names out there for people to talk to about certain events.

All WLs have the ability to grant XP, so there is no need to create a freak-out situation by making something a quest - all that does is ensure you will be asked the same question every time you log in, regardless of what new stories you have acquired since that time.

As for quests for the later WLs (and remember, these PC quests were actually not about their epics, just important events - several were not yet even level 20 - title is a misnomer ), those fall on the shoulders of the WLs themselves. If they want one, they can write one and submit it. But I still think the XP granting ability takes care of it better than a quest that is only going to clutter up someone's list to the point of obsession, becoming years later a symbol of complaint... no matter how many times you actually told it.

That said, I can think of logins within the last couple months for every PC quest I can think of off the top of my head... maybe another one I'm not sure has been removed yet or not. Somebody like Rhizome you could wait a long, long time for, Plen just told his again not long ago, and Triba's is usually just told by Acacea with Triba present. Another one I can think of, I never completed despite actually seeing and speaking with the PC every day.

I do agree with the motivation behind having them... I just think that leaving them in without the actual quest (or maybe just a no-reward completed quest so it's in the journal?) still gets the names out, though. Either way, to me having an NPC complete it for you defeats the purpose of having one in the first place. ...I'd rather wait a year for Rhizome to finish one himself than have a random druid npc do it for him (if there had to be a quest at all), and Plenarius has told his more times than I can count and still finds time to do so again when he is around.

[Hellblazer]

Well you see, you just made the point I was doing for those who are no longer playing. I know Plen, rhizome do theirs. so those shouldn't be npcifed or removed. But there are others that the players are no longer here, so they should either be removed. Or to keep the lore still alive, npcified.

[Acacea]

I know they are annoying to keep, but I just disagreed with the NPC part, which was the original suggestion. So that wasn't really making the point, just understanding the reason behind it

[Hellblazer]

I understand why you are saying that if they should be told by the pc's but if the pc's who it's their thing to tell the story is not there anymore, something should be there to keep the lore alive. It's not a question of xp, but simply to see a continuation in something that actually make this world different from others. Even if the player are no longer here, they still made their mark and they do deserve their story to be told.

Easiest way is to have someone say the story sure. But then what happens if that person stops playing in his/her turn? We are stuck at the same point. What I'm suggesting is a compromise. The players that are still here that have their story do not need to have it told by others, they should be the one telling their own stories. A bit like the world leaders.

If a pc has done something great enough to warrant the team placing a pc quest in their honor, to which I assume they agreed to. I think there should be a sense of responsibility to tell their own story. If they do not wish to anymore or are not there anymore, take them out. But then you take something unique out of this server. So the other solution is to keep it, but adapt it in a way that it can fit every one. Those that still wish to tell their own stories can keep doing it. Those that do not, or are not here anymore to do so, can have their story given by an npc.

[Acacea]

There are a hundred other stories, some of them three times as relevant to current events, that can still be told by other PCs as well. Replace them, update them, something... don't just take the same stuff and put them in an NPC's mouth.

I'm just saying - seriously, if the player isn't around to tell them anymore, then they are already ancient. Like I said, WLs can make their own new ones if they want, and nothing is stopping anyone from doing any kind of lore-based quest in the first place. These are ancient and were for the purpose of player mingling. It's not keeping the lore alive, because it is old and stagnant, as though nothing has happened since then. It's an illusion of impact since they never change and never grow and are never replaced. Other PCs know these stories - just ask them and it does the exact same thing as an NPC, except you're still roleplaying instead of just collecting on text flying by.


There are a lot of reasons I don't like it, but most of them are right there in what I already said. Below that I just cut out a wall of text that included less objective reasons that centered around the only quote I saved:

I think NPC story quests are a great thing too, and that we should have a hundred of them. Any quest that has some learning about the place surrounding you and less just a fedex counting of heads is a great thing to me. I just wish that we didn't seem to work in a place where we had to choose between the two instead of promoting both player interaction and NPC tellings.

It's frustrating to get only GM grins and other cliched vagaries in response to a story request (for the purpose of sharing with players), only to watch things go up on LORE or yet another know-it-all NPC visited on quest. I'm not even close to the only player of a PC that can hand out stories or information, and I am skeptical about being the only one that gets frustrated with the trend, heh. Tired of "find out in game" followed by public releases... Drezneb's story being posted on LORE for all to use shortly after I picked it on a trip, with names or details I didn't know, is an awesome example. Great that it's posted, I wish everything would be, but we seem to work in all-or-nothings. Support your players, at least...

My rational reasons and additional personal dislike reasons.

[EdTheKet]

Indeed these were put into play to foster player-player interaction.
Most however, no longer play here so it's impossible to complete the quest.

We could remove them, but that's time spent on the dev side which is a limited resource. Time better spent on fixing or changing other things in my opinion.

Next to that, all WLs have a WL XP wand which they could also use as XP reward for listening to their individual stories. These wands are another form of hoping to improve player-player interaction.
So I totally agree with Acacea's statement that "nothing is stopping anyone from doing any kind of lore-based quest in the first place"

I also echo her statement that other PCs know the stories as well, except that won't allow you to complete the quest in the journal. It does improve player-player interaction though.As for releasing things on LORE versus finding out in game.

In the past, when we/I were not putting the new texts for deities, realms and cities on LORE, there was criticism that the information was not being released, the world wasn't changing, it was stale, things like that.
Perfectly understandable criticism. Our priority was to get them out as actual books and not come out with books that were outdated from day one.
Due to various reasons I will not get into, these got significantly delayed, so we decided to release the information to LORE now. This is in fact done to support you, the players, so you know more about the world and the deities.

Now that this information is being released however, there are comments that we are doing this, instead of allowing people to find it out in game.
(I am basing this on several comments I received through IRC or PM from several players. Or through the he-said-that-she-said-that-he-said grapevine, but I'd rather have people say it to me directly and with constructive suggestions/comments in threads like this.
 These are not necessarily the same players that were criticizing the non-release of information, although some are. But I digress.)

In any case, finding out all information in game is not a realistic request. It's too much (At last count, I've got over 1,500 pages of text). That being said, especially NPC wise, I try to take care to not release information has not been released in game before.

I also try to take care to NOT release information that may become available through future quests.

As for the specific example from Acacea about Drezneb, that information was released in-game on at least two quests. Granted, a lot of attendees no longer play here (Ozy, Reventage, Remiel, Athus, Rufus and 8 others). However, there's some that do, at least occasionally (e.g. Kobal, Plenarius, Triba). Drezneb/Shalic Layor's story has also been told by Plenarius during story telling sessions as well.
I wouldn't have put that up on LORE unless this was the case, and I've got more on Drezneb which I am intentionally not releasing.