Use of Draconic Language

[drakogear]

Ok so... as usual I suppose... have a character idea and may perhaps be the first RDD in Layonara.

My question is though, the use of the Draconic Language. Thinking he would be a sorcerer and have a Pseudodragon Familiar. Despite Pseudo meaning fake would they still understand and speak the Draconic language?

Would have posted this in the "Speaking familiars" thread but couldn't find it. :\

[Dorganath]

He wouldn't be the first RDD in Layonara. *smiles*

A Sorcerer does not need to speak Draconic to speak with his/her familiar, and I think it was established in the past that Pseudodragons don't actually speak, be it Draconic or any other language, but rather communicate through chirps, whistles, purrs and similar sounds.  The empathic bond between Sorcerer/Wizard and familiar enable a sort of low-level communication with some understanding between them even if they don't share a language.

[Script Wrecked]

The [POST=1304102]Dragon Disciple[/POST] post.

The [THREAD=112827]Do Familiars Talk?[/THREAD] thread.

[Ravemore]

He wouldn't be the first RDD in Layonara. *smiles*

//Are you saying there actually is a RDD that took the levels Dorg? I was aware of that other post linked by Script. Just a yes or no question not requiring any elaboration... Hehe.

[Acacea]

He did not take the levels, but he passed his quest and became the role. He should have taken the levels, and probably now would be made to, since the process was pretty linked. Kind of hard to undo.

[Dezza]

And Draconic is amongst the rarest languages to learn on layonara. The last known 'human', I use that loosely, that spoke it was Oslo, and he's now dead I believe.

[Dorganath]

There are non-draconic NPCs who do speak Draconic, actually. Very, very few, but they do exist.

I think only one PC ever spoke Draconic, and sadly that PC is no longer played.

[Acacea]

This is very much contradicted by the creation of NPC sects that speak draconic. Before, there were NPCs, yes, that spoke it, but they were rare. We have now established the Dragonlinks and the scholars of Aragen and of course Rofireinites speaking Draconic as if it were not a rarity...

I'm really serious and think you guys need to actually read what you are putting out and the impression you want it to give. "A bevy of draconic speakers" is NOT rare, and should be allowed for people to learn on submission with that kind of numbers in solely the second rate faith on dragon matters. It was very disappointing when that was released with no lead-in, PC involvement, or anything of any kind in the middle of a dragon-focused campaign with a lot of PCs that have worked pretty hard for scraps of dragon matters over the years. With the push of a button we have bevies of dragon speakers with personal dragon friends and research. Sheesh. Why didn't we just leave it to them, then?

It really is a contradiction that should be addressed by either loosening the restrictions on PC draconic, even if only within Aragenite/Lucindite/Rofireinite faiths, or by realizing the sect didn't match your established lore at all and editing it slightly to tone it down. Just saying... we try to help but I feel a little multiple personality when we put stuff like that out but continue saying something different.

[Dorganath]

It was my impression that those sects were relatively small and still on the rare side within those particular faiths.  Maybe I missed something.  I don't believe that speaking/reading Draconic within those faiths is common and is generally limited to individuals within those particular sects.

I'm happy to be told otherwise, however!

[lonnarin]

Just kidnap a kobold and beat it out of him.

[Acacea]

Like I said, or it could be minorly edited to tone it down, which can be as simple as a choice of words. You guys do know that I generally do not go tirades about things that only me with my poor reading comprehension misunderstands? How something is interpreted is part of the process. Had Rork been the only one mentioned as being fluent, everyone would look past the little-bit sour fact that they were just written in halfway through a campaign in which they should have been known, or that they were written into roles of events past that were PC-driven. Just change the line about there being a bevy of draconic speakers translating away. If it is not what you intended, it should be altered. You know what I mean?

LORE: Lucinda: Sects

It is not a question of "what it is" or "what it is not". It is about representation and interpretation. Snippets of writing represent the whole. If the above statements about the rarity and impossibility of learning it remain true, then snip is prone to misinterpretation about the whole. I'm just saying to keep it even across the line; I don't care where the line itself is. We were barred from draconic because no one spoke it anymore, yet here they are...

Alterations can be as simple as phrases like, "Though few in number..." or focusing on single persons that speak it rather than a group.

[lonnarin]

I always wondered if sacred texts for the Rofirien & Pyrtechon faiths would be common enough for clergy to learn draconic through those channels.  Sure the local clergy in most towns wouldn't know, but it would make sense that the scholars of the faiths would study draconic texts.  Much like how theologians study Hebrew and Latin, Dragon-God worshipers would seek isdom, studying the ancient texts of dragons.

[EdTheKet]

Like I said, or it could be minorly edited to tone it down, which can be as simple as a choice of words. You guys do know that I generally do not go tirades about things that only me with my poor reading comprehension misunderstands? How something is interpreted is part of the process. Had Rork been the only one mentioned as being fluent, everyone would look past the little-bit sour fact that they were just written in halfway through a campaign in which they should have been known, or that they were written into roles of events past that were PC-driven. Just change the line about there being a bevy of draconic speakers translating away. If it is not what you intended, it should be altered. You know what I mean?

LORE: Lucinda: Sects

It is not a question of "what it is" or "what it is not". It is about representation and interpretation. Snippets of writing represent the whole. If the above statements about the rarity and impossibility of learning it remain true, then snip is prone to misinterpretation about the whole. I'm just saying to keep it even across the line; I don't care where the line itself is. We were barred from draconic because no one spoke it anymore, yet here they are...

Alterations can be as simple as phrases like, "Though few in number..." or focusing on single persons that speak it rather than a group.

I'll have a look, a think and a talk

[Gulnyr]

It really is a contradiction that should be addressed by either loosening the restrictions on PC draconic, even if only within Aragenite/Lucindite/Rofireinite faiths, or by realizing the sect didn't match your established lore at all and editing it slightly to tone it down.

Considering this (from here) -  

The last faction of the Aragen church are Teachers. This is a late development of the church, designed in response to the occupation of Prantz. The church took no stance on whether the occupation following the war was evil or good, only that there was a huge outcry for knowledge. With the church's goal of even accessibility, members from the existing sections gathered and created this new section so that the knowledge would be accessible to all, even those who could not read. Teachers are slowly being asked for in various kingdoms across the world as tutors for the children of the rich. They also attend some of the orphanages across the land to teach. However, they also teach adults, excluding no one who comes in search of knowledge.

- it's hard to imagine that speaking, reading, and writing any language would remain especially rare for long.  An Aragenite who knows draconic may be obligated to teach others without discrimination (though there could be a fee or something).  Surely there's no reason only one Aragenite would know; that's contrary to the whole notion of accessibility and spreading knowledge.  There's no reason why no Teacher would know; surely not even close to all of them would know, but there must be Teachers who can teach draconic, else they've made a judgment that draconic is trivial and not worthy of repeating to anyone.  Aristocrats, wizards, and various walking moneybags (like adventurers) could all line up for draconic lessons, and only something contrived could stop the logical spread of the language.  *shrug*

Like Acacea, the write-ups read to me like there are plenty of people who know draconic.  The only reason it's rare for us is because there's an OOC rule prohibiting learning from NPCs.

[Ravemore]

The only reason it's rare for us is because there's an OOC rule prohibiting learning from NPCs.

I truly dislike this rule. It would be awesome to be able to spend a month or two writing a nice CDT to support a new language request, and for one that is more rare perhaps a CDQ in conjunction.

[Acacea]

If your desire is to leave it very rare but retain NPC speakers, and have trouble reconciling the quotes above with your desire, I would suggest giving it IC mechanical restrictions that account for its high difficulty to learn. We do know that the syllables themselves are very difficult for humanoids to pronounce, but that's not enough.

My suggestion if that is your desired route (I don't care what route is desired) is something along any or all of these lines at will a) requiring a higher intelligence bonus free, b) arcane ability c) on par with florane, fluency only gained as dragon-taught, d) x amount CHA, SC, or perform to replicate syllables (whatever makes sense I guess), e) have a funny looking face, whatever you can think of and justify and have apply to everyone save the rarest of circumstances (like Brac'ar intensifying his transformative properties, or Rofirein gifting Jennara with his own speech, or Acacea becoming a green dragon disciple, or... you know the kind of unlikely scenarios I am talking about!).

I am sure others can think of more. The idea is that everyone is limited by these, NPC and PC alike, and so regardless of how many willing teachers there are, they would be limited by their audience.

I wouldn't grab onto these and say, "all of them and more, yeah, super rare!" because yeah, I dislike that waste of a language ear, but also because I think florane should not be outdone by draconic. Florane is only limited by the inaccessibility of its speakers - Acacea can say 6 words with no meaning. If any of the t'ol would answer her knocking one time in a hundred, maybe she'd score. Maybe not. There are, however, any number of dragons around...

If such limitations end up ensuring that only 30 INT wizards with the mark of a dragon claw (say through a feat) end up learning the language, so be it. I would say that like all other things, extraordinary events may provide others with the opportunity, and it at least narrows it down a great deal - we would say, alright. Melizaphei has 30+ INT and took the feat. Rork, let us say, had extraordinary circumstances and got it through intensive GM questing with a friendly dragon relationship. Teaching it to others through these humanoids is more difficult and would account for the rarity while not making it entirely impossible, for anyone under the right (rare) circumstances.

You could say it is really not even that useful to be able to speak it... you just get a lot of idiot humans and elves that try talking with a dragon in it and get eaten for their audacity.

----------------------------

As to not allowing NPC taught business, I understand but also understand the reason it came to be... everyone wants to be taught infernal and draconic from their familiars, everyone wants to write how they studied with Elmi at the library for everything dragon-related, and oh look! Here is a chance met wizard on the road that speaks every language in existence! True, it was a different time with a lot more people to look out for, but you really can write circles around anything - I think I could, were it my inclination, write enough circles to score Acacea draconic within 2 months even with the current status of it. I know, skeptical, but given the proper dedication, why not?

I would not be making up NPCs, and I would not be inventing GM witnesses... she's been hoarding a lot of it over the years and has a pretty mad perform, a whole prayer tattooed on her in draconic. If I shifted it into writing as her sole focus in all the world I think I could make a pretty good case, and that they are usually open to "pretty good cases," even accounting for CDQs.

But, it's not her sole thing in all the world, she doesn't focus on it above everything, and in general is split juggling too many partials to ever qualify for such a big whole... If she had 30 INT and there was a feat to take, though...

However, if that were my inclination and I were starting from less, I would request a CDQ to speak with scholars of the tongue, and another later if necessary, and dig straight into the CDT full stop about the studies required. Shoot, take as many as you need to hunt around. After enough dedication, maybe some other quest to top it off, I don't see why not, unless it is for Shadow or Florane. I think most people don't even want to think of the dedication required, though.

I thought of trying CDQs for the latter (florane), but they won't answer her knocking ever.

[Acacea]

PS We got very off-topic, didn't we?

[Dorganath]

Just a bit *smiles*

[Gulnyr]

It's for a good cause.

[jrizz]

who is Rork O'Mallory? Was he a PC that turned NPC or was he conjured up?