horses and the arena

[merlin34baseball]

Hiya!

If you fight mounted in the arena and die will your horse die? I know dieing while mounted kills the horse when adventuring (I think).

Teo finally got a pony and we were thinking of having a mounted battle in the arena, but we want to avoid killing 36,000 Trues worth of livestock.

Thanks,
Merlin34

[Dorganath]

When you are on horseback, you and your horse are mechanically one creature.  The horse is actually a tail and your character is forced into a "mounted" body type.  Effectively, you on horseback is just you, so there is only one creature at that point.

When you die on horseback, you are force-dismounted, so you and your horse become separate once more.  Your horse then is vulnerable to attack and damage.  This is why it is highly recommended to not fight on horseback.  They are intended for fast travel only. They confer no benefits to combat at all.

It has not been tested in the arena, but ultimately, what happens will depend on the actions of one's opponent.

[Guardian 452]

So say your opponent has cleave their is a chance they could lay the smackdown on your mount if they arent carefull?

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

ooopsy!

[Dorganath]

So say your opponent has cleave their is a chance they could lay the smackdown on your mount if they arent carefull?

Potentially, yes.

[drakogear]

They confer no benefits to combat at all.

Correction, they do. Though not listed in Lore (surprisingly), there are two somewhat hidden feats requiring one point in riding skill to unlock.

Mounted Combat:

Requires 1 rank in riding skill

Riding check once per round to increase ac by 1 Per 5 ranks in riding.

Mounted Archery:

Requires Mounted Combat Feat.

Reduces ranged weapon penalty wile mounted from -4 to -2

Edit: Surprisingly not even the NWN Vault site has them listed, not even the riding skill. The NWN Wiki has them though.

Ride - NWNWiki, the Neverwinter Nights Wiki - your guide to the game of NWN

Applied since the 1.69 patch

However seems quite modifiable so I don't really know if any changes may have been made to the default riding script, skill or feats in Layo.

There are even base advantages to riding even without the feats.

Horse riding - NWNWiki, the Neverwinter Nights Wiki - your guide to the game of NWN

Armor Class
If horse AC is higher than riders. Rider gains +difference to natural AC.

Hit Points
The rider receives half the hit points of the horse in the form of temporary hit points.

Speed increase
The rider receives a 50% bonus to movement rate. Speed increases from barbarian and monk levels are negated, though.

And a slight disadvantage (especially for rouges.)
Skill decrease:
The rider receives a -50 penalty to disable trap, hide, move silently, open lock, pick pocket, set trap, and tumble while riding.

Though how one could perform such actions on a horse I may never know.

Note however that all are modifiable and thus may have been changed or even disabled in Layo... I do not know.

[Hellblazer]

That's if you use the stock version of mounts that bioware added with the 1.69 patch. Which I don't think Layo is using. It may still be using the old script that they had been using for years before the 1.69 patch, with newer models.

The only benefit of the layo horses, is increased speed of movement, and diminution of attack and damage.

Get a horse in game and actually do check your stats. You will see no additional hit points, a reduction of ab and dmg, and increase speed of movement.

[Dorganath]

Correction, they do.

(lots of quotes)

Note however that all are modifiable and thus may have been changed or even disabled in Layo... I do not know.

I do know, because I implemented horses for Layonara....twice.

My statement stands.  Horses do not confer mechanical bonuses for combat.

[Dorganath]

The only benefit of the layo horses, is increased speed of movement, and diminution of attack and damage.

There is a speed increase, there is a Hide/Move Silent penalty, and there is a prohibition against equipping large shields.

Horses give confer no other mechanical benefits or penalties.

[Hellblazer]

//edit There used a penalty to ab and damage, you would see the two red signs appear on the screen when you mounted a horse. I guess that changed.

[Dorganath]

//edit There used a penalty to ab and damage, you would see the two red signs appear on the screen when you mounted a horse. I guess that changed.

No, there never was. It was always a skill penalty to Hide and Move Silent.  Those can display the red down-arrow symbols also.

Add to that, those symbols can sometimes lie to you, disappearing even when the effect is still present.  AB/Damage penalty could have also been hunger or thirst, and mounting the horse caused the icons to appear. You can't always trust those icons. You should use the Character Sheet page to reference what effects are present on your character at any given time.

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

As I have known for a while, I just tested it again and the result is this:  

After mounting your horse then equipping your weapon your AB gets a -4.  

If you equip your weapon, then mount your horse, there is no -4 AB added.  

While mounted if you switch weapons or unequip/equip them, the -4 AB is added.

Verified this by looking at Character Sheet both ways.

There is always the negative effect to hide/MS, and an Increase to your speed.

[Dorganath]

Oh strange.  Must be Bioware's part doing that on the back end somewhere.  It's nothing we added on purpose or explicitly.

I'm also not going to consider it a bug, because as we have stated many, many times, horses are not for combat.  If people take them into combat, they assume the risks of doing so without benefit.

Thanks for the detailed outline Jil.  Do you know off-hand if it's for any type of weapon? Ranged only? Melee only?

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

Ranged Only weapons are affected.

[drakogear]

Hm, dang, and was starting to like the benefits listed in the NWN wiki. Well, so much for the heavy cavalry then.

Light cavalry on the other hand. (Mounted archers/mages) may still posses a bit of an advantage.

Attack enemy from afar, they get close, ride away to safe distance then keep firing.

[Dorganath]

Ranged Only weapons are affected.

Thanks!

[drakogear]

Ranged Only weapons are affected.

Hm, could you try putting one point in riding then getting mounted combat and mounted archery and see if the penalty is reduced to -2?

note: Mounted combat is required for mounted archery.

And perhaps if that IS the case... 5 riding + Mounted combat might = +1 AC

I'm pretty far from testing that myself. Don't have a level 15 character... not even sure I even have a character.

[Hellblazer]

Thing is the server is not using the nwn horse script but an other one. So putting points into those two skill is a waste.

[Acacea]

You need to be looking at LORE for Layonara's feats. Not all of the standard ones work the same way or are even available, and there are custom ones added.