Yahoo Newsgroup Propagandists 0-5 tonight!

[lonnarin]

You know, maybe our international policy would be a bit better if... "I HATE YA FRENCHIES!" wasn't a part of it.

As for the "love it or leave it" policy, I invite any member of the govt or its military to come over here and make me.  If they so choose to violate the 1st amendment like that, I'll instruct them on my 2nd amendment.

[Dorganath]

Let's make a short list, eh?
  Let's make a list of all the things America has done right in the last century.
 
 
 
  Do I hear crickets?  Shall I list them?
  No...it's not important.  The point is I simply get sick and tired of all the America-bashing that goes on.  No, as a country, we're not perfect, and yet for some reason unlike most other nations on the planet, our foreign AND domestic policies are expected to please everyone, everywhere, all the time.  We're cursed at for taking action...cursed at for standing by and doing nothing.  We give aid by the millions (or billions) to other nations, then criticized when it doesn't reach the people for which it is intended.  There are 280+ million people in this country, and that works out to about 280+ million opinions on how this country should conduct itself.  I resepect every single one of them, even though I most likely won't agree with many.
  But hey...we're easy targets.  We're arguably the most powerful nation on the planet, if one combines economic, political and military factors. What this nation has accomplished in 200+ years puts the accomplishments of most other parts of the world to shame in their 2000+ year histories.  And we did so without a prolonged period of colonialism and screwing up numerous other nations...unlike some European countries. I can think of at least one or two European colonies in Africa who were in the news recently for attrocities that put Abu-Ghraib to shame.  Where was the international outrage then?
  For those American citizens among us, let us remember that our First Amendment, in all its glory, is perhaps the most important concept in government period.  And also remember that its most important concept is that it protects the speech that YOU may not like.  I would argue that it is the unpopular speech that is most important to protect.  Something to think about.  Now, those of us who really believe in that should consider what the best way is to defend it and ensure its endurance...and chances are, we won't agree.  But I wouldn't have it any other way.
  Someone wiser than me once said (and I forget his name...and this is paraphrased) that I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.
  Think about that the next time you feel the need to bash our own military.  This was directed to no one in particular, just an important point that needs to be made.
  And lastly, to touch upon a certain locked thread....whether or not you personally agree with the US's decision regarding Iraq and Afganistan, the fact of the matter is that we are there now, and we have set in motion a series of events that MUST be seen through to their most beneficial conclusion.  You need to ask yourself what, truly, is your goal? The fulfilment of an agenda or the well-being of the people of those countries?  Demanding an exit strategy from the US, when our exit is fully dependent upon the Iraqi and Afgani people and governments, is counterproductive.  Where would Europe be if 2 years after D-Day people were calling for an exit strategy from Germany or Japan?  How long did that process take?  7-9 years, depending on who you ask.  Something to think about.
  I'm going to finish now and say no more on this subject.  I feel I've taken a great personal risk by saying things that may be unpopular, and I can only hope that the friends I've made here can understand what I mean without getting all bent out of shape, and respect my opinions even if they don't agree. I don't think this is the right place for a protracted discussion of whether the US is right or wrong.  I've seen such discussions get way out of hand, and we simply do not need that here.
  So let's just shake hands, agree to disagree, and get back to what we do best....
 
 
 
 
    Cutting down giants and stacking them like kindling.  C'mon!  Who's with me?

[lonnarin]

The Funniest part is I initially got censored by people disagreeing with my view that Micheal Jackson is guilty.  Iraq was never a part of it.  I merely pointed out how extremists are those who debate with one side blind to their arguments...  

*snickers*

[dfiremann]

I suppose where you confuse me...and Dorganath says these things so much better than I do... is your right to free speech.  The question I ask, amidst your vitriolic rhetoric (as mine is, to be sure), is...

What have you done to deserve that freedom?

I agree Michael Jackson is guilty.  I agree on many sensationalist issues.

Where we disagree is the horrible pain any oppressed people suffer through in the United States.  My suggestion to ease your pain is to move someplace to get some perspective.  Every nation has the same fundamental rights the US does...er....no.  Ok, well every country will surely facilitate you saying whatever you want t....drat, wrong again.  

And when I get bashed for my Star Spangled Banner 'blaring' or my complete departure from reality...

Nevermind, I have to go do my job in a sandstorm again.  And I'm going to talk to that little kid who's dad gave me a hug because his brother was killed by a Saddam hit squad, his kids can now go to school, and he can make his own living.

But you guys don't see that on TV, so it must be "US invasionist policies"

Solve the world from internet sites and CNN.  Be a malcontent.  It's your right.  Be a malcontent, and further do nothing about it.  Me?   I'm over here, trying to help- effect a change for the better.

Don't worry, I won't post here again.  I'm getting sucked into the selfish immaturity of slapping labels.  I can appreciate discourse, I can appreciate perspective from the other side, some of the points, as I've said before are great ones, some intriguing, some I agree with, some I don't.

What I refuse to do is whine about anything.  I try and change it.  

I just want to get back to my wife and kids in one piece.  Go back to my other job.  Make my money, continue my education, raise my kids.

And if my country calls on me to serve again?

I'll be there.

[Aryn Ravenlocke]

As more than a few now have already pointed out, Layonara is not the place to decide the rights and wrongs of America. Nor are any of us here (at least not likely anyway) qualified to sit as judge over the actions of the US government. We may have a differing opinion, but that is a very different thing from sitting in judgement.

This thread has run the course of its usefulness and then some.


YT