A new race?

[Drizzt]

I was brainstorming today and I thought it would be neat if we could have a large (tall, at lowest 5' 11" and highest 7' 5") human sub-race.  I was thinking along the lines of a skald but instead of it being a class make it a sub-race for humans.  Here are some stats that I am just throwing up, remember this is just an idea.

+3 str, +2 cons, -4 char, -2 int

5 points of elemental cold resistance

+2 will, +2 fort

Gains skald abilites upon level

Can only be a Bard, Barbarian, or Fighter

Can only have 2 classes

Most are Lawful

ECL: 3


The extreme str and cons is due to their nature in hunting the wild animals in the tundra and the large number of brawls among the tribe.  They have absolutely no luck with the ladies for they are often rude and think of women as slaves, thus the -4 charisma.  As for the int drop I was thinking about the large amount of mead and ale they drink and how "stupid" they can be at times.  Now as for the 5 cold resist I was thinking that they would only come from a certain place in Layonara, and the first place that came to mind was Barbarian Islands, being cold as it is, they are used to it.   Just to clarify I  was oringinally thinking of R.L. Salvatore's "Icewind Dale Trilogy" but Layo style.  This is just a wild thought and I don't even know where to start on how to get the model for this, or if it is even possible to create.  But as TV says "Its no fun keeping all your crazy ideas to yourself"

[Drizzt]

Alright its up!  Feed me the feedback!

[steverimmer]

hmm bards and barbarians cannot be lawful

[Talan Va'lash]

Drizzt - 9/11/2005  7:30 PM



+3 str, +2 cons, -4 char, -2 int

5 points of elemental cold resistance

+2 will, +2 fort

Gains skald abilites upon level

Can only be a Bard, Barbarian, or Fighter

Can only have 2 classes

Most are Lawful

ECL: 3

So.. they get the benefits of the class they're taking plus Skald abilities?

Also the stat adjustments are reaaally unbalanced a +2 con is fairly well offset by a -2 int, but a +3 strength is way more valuable than a -4 cha.  It also means they'll be really bad bards.

A subrace that only had those stat adjustments and none of the other stuff would be close to a level adjustment +2

Toss in cold resist and fairly big save bonus' and you're getting your ECL up there.

Getting the additional class progression is going to peg your ECL to the point where its not playable.

And if most are lawful, then why are two of the three classes they can pick classes that require a non-lawful alignment?

Cha isn't only a measure of how good someone is with the ladies, and the idea that a cultural practice (such as the position of women in a given society) would give a group a -4 cha is a very ethnocentric perception.

I agree that crazy ideas should be shared!  I'm just trying to tear yours apart and make you cry.  no no! I'm just kidding.  But, balance is important and balance issues can't always be solved by tacking on an ECL.

-TV

[Varnart]

Just thought this could be useful for threads such as this one.

[Drizzt]

steverimmer - 9/12/2005  1:37 AMhmm bards and barbarians cannot be lawful

 *smacks head against computer table serveral times*  

Talan Va'lash - 9/12/2005  1:38 AM So.. they get the benefits of the class they're taking plus Skaldabilities?Also the stat adjustments are reaaally unbalanced a +2 con is fairlywell offset by a -2 int, but a +3 strength is way more valuable than a-4 cha. It also means they'll be really bad bards.A subrace that only had those stat adjustments and none of the otherstuff would be close to a level adjustment +2Toss in cold resist and fairly big save bonus' and you're getting yourECL up there.Getting the additional class progression is going to peg your ECL tothe point where its not playable.And if most are lawful, then why are two of the three classes they canpick classes that require a non-lawful alignment?Cha isn't only a measure of how good someone is with the ladies, andthe idea that a cultural practice (such as the position of women in agiven society) would give a group a -4 cha is a very ethnocentricperception.I agree that crazy ideas should be shared! I'm just trying to tearyours apart and make you cry. no no! I'm just kidding. But, balance isimportant and balance issues can't always be solved by tacking on anECL.-TV

 Yep, I totally understand what your saying.  Especially the balance part as you can see my balancing was quite unbalanced, funny enough.  I look back now and realize I wasn't thinking of how it could be used in NWN and Layonara.  Just an odd class that would be something special.  

Varnart - 9/12/2005  5:56 AMJust thought this could be useful for threads such as this one.

 Yes that looks like an excellent race building program...it would be even neater if it was made especially for Layonara.  Using all of the Layo things and the Bioware standard.   I will rethink this and try and see if I could make it balanced and made for NWN and Layonara.  Most excellent feedback.  Thanks!

[Talan Va'lash]

@Varnat - That tool is designed for the way level adjustment and creature types are handled in PnP.  Races/subraces don't have their own HD for PCs in NWN.  Though I saw that implemented once on some PW, all characters started at level 2 or 3 and if you had a race or subrace like lizardmen or something you had to take your first 2 levels as your creature HD.  They used a 2da override that all clients had to download that allowed you to take a custom base class at level 1.

@Sand.. er I mean Drizzt - You're welcome.  Sorry the feedback couldn't be more positive.  Something to keep in mind for creating races, if you give them benefits that are really good for X classes, you can't offset them with even very large penalties if those penalties would only hamper a character of Y classes.

For example, this race is hideously unbalanced:

+4 Str, +4 Con, -2 int, -2 wis, -4 cha
Racial arcane spell failure of 50%

Even though the mental stats are highly penalized and then they get slapped with the huge negative property of arcane spell failure (not sure what racial characteristics would cause this, but... its just an example) that property doesn't affect the balance of the race at all.  For a fighter or barb with this race almost all of the penalties are unimportant, from a warrior class point of view this races stats are:

+4 str, +4 con, -2int
-1 will saves

Thats all thats important, and the int is only important for feats like expertise.  The same thing is true in the opposite direction.  If you make a race with bonus' casters will like, and then give them the restriction that they can't use any melee weapons, armor, or shields... it doesn't affect the balance of the race much at all.

-TV

[Harloff]

If a subrace should exist for poeple from the barbarian islands i think it should be something like:

5/- cold resistance (they are from the cold north and can't be damaged by cold as easily)

Not affected by the cold weather on Krashin since they are used to it, but gain penalties in the desert instead

alignment: non-lawfull (well there is a reason why they are called the barbarian islands, besides they tend to sack leilon from time to time)

Classes: Figther, barbarian, bard, (druid, ranger)


hmmm... I can't say if the class is at all interesting compared to the problems of making it...

-Harloff

[Drizzt]

Harloff - 9/13/2005  5:55 AMIf a subrace should exist for poeple from the barbarian islands i think it should be something like:5/- cold resistance (they are from the cold north and can't be damaged by cold as easily)Not affected by the cold weather on Krashin since they are used to it, but gain penalties in the desert insteadalignment: non-lawfull (well there is a reason why they are called the barbarian islands, besides they tend to sack leilon from time to time)Classes: Figther, barbarian, bard, (druid, ranger)hmmm... I can't say if the class is at all interesting compared to the problems of making it...-Harloff

I was thinking more along the lines of lawful because of R.L. Salvatore's Icewind Dale, mostly.  The barbarians in that series had a strict code by which they followed.  I also do realize now that this is not Faerun and not in Salvatore's mind.  

[Wintersheart]

I think many of us would use non-lawful because it is more a personal code of honour than a belief in laws and rules. An emphasis on freedom and individual responsibility I see as more chaotic than lawful.

*grins* But this is one of the areas where people often disagree. *sighs* alignment we don't have it in Call of Chtulhu and I can't say I miss it.

[Harloff]

Aye alignments are crap, when i created Skarp-Heiden i actually had a lawful person in mind. He is brought up by a very strict family code similar to that of a sicilian mobster. But similar to them he doesn't respect other codes than that of his family which means that he should get an allignment like:

lawful: with respect to family code.
chaotic/neutral, with respect to the law, especially if the law stands in the way of the family code, he wouldn't think twice before breking it in such a case.

but this can't be done in D & D, so he ended up being neutral.

-Harloff

[Talan Va'lash]

1920's stereotype mobsters are LE (or LN depending.)

The kinda guy that'll introduce himself before making a hit, that'll let a man eat his last lasagna before makin' him take along walk off a short pier.  He won't hurt a woman, or even swear in front of one.  Won't shoot someone in the back, never welches on his word, always obey the don.

This is lawful.  Very strict "laws" which may not be broken.  They hardly have anything to do with the government established laws, but to be obiedient to such a strict hierarchy of rules is what it means to be lawful.

Now, evil... killing people because they got in the way, or squealed to another family, or because they're a cop... its evil whether the person in question thinks that everyone they killed had it coming to them or not.  

If you've read Salvatore, Entreri is the perfect example.  He's an assasin who worked for thieves guilds.  He only ever killed anyone who had done something (like assasinate someone else in the guild of his employer) or was at least involved in the guilds (which was asking to be killed.)  So, in his mind, he had never killed anyone who deserved better.  If he conceptualizes himself as LN, but in fact hes LE (at least for most of the books.)

He was also my favorite character in the books, due mostly to the fact that he's really the only dynamic character (well the only dynamic character who's changes aren't based on fantastic circumstances like spending 5 years as a prisoner in the abyss.)

-TV